RX 24 - Using Technology To Make Ministry Personal - Jason Castelli

Transcribed Content

Welcome, everyone. Good to have you. We are looking forward to round two with Jason Castelli. So let's give him a nice warm welcome. Alright. Welcome. Good to be with you. If we did not meet, my name is Jason Castelli, and I serve at LCBC Church in Central Pennsylvania. We've got 23 campuses plus church online kinda spread out through Central Central and Northeast Pennsylvania, and I get to serve on our central team giving direction to essentially adult discipleship, what we call next steps. And so I shared a little bit about my family, but they're the better half of me. So if you get tired of it, too bad. That's my wife, Katie. We've been married about fourteen years, and she got to tag along this week. So that's been fun. And then I've got four children, 10 and under. So when the claim to fame was when the twins were born, I had four children, four and under. So it was a small season but crazy, crazy. And so, we moved out to Lancaster with two. We doubled up. You know, we were on the fence between two and three and God said, should have four. And so that was a God thing because we wouldn't have chose that and, we wouldn't change it for anything now. They're a ton of fun and, we love doing life together. And that'll kind of tie into some of what we talk about here in a few minutes. But, as we jump in today, we're gonna be talking about this idea of how do we make or how do we leverage technology to make ministry personal. And maybe that feels a little inverted, and so hopefully we'll get some clarity as we go. And so I wanna play a little game with you all here as we get started, a little word association game. So we're gonna we're gonna be asking the question, are we clear on the mission? And so when you hear the word mission, alright, it could be detached from church, but pops into your head when you think of the word mission? For me, one is Mission Barbecue. So I don't know if you all know what Mission Barbecue is. I don't know if this is just a Pennsylvania thing or a Northeast thing, but it is a delicious barbecue joint in the Lancaster area where we live, and so my mind thinks of Mission Barbecue. Maybe you think of Ethan Hunt and Mission Impossible. Tom Cruise, the age defying unicorn who does all his own stunts. Amazing. Or maybe you're more of that comedy sort and you think of Nacho Libre. And if you're like, I don't understand how that ties into mission. There's a mission over there in the corner, so I'm not just making stuff up. This all checks out. All right. And last but not least, the Blues Brothers. Anybody know who the Blues Brothers are? Or I should say anybody who doesn't. It's okay. I know that you're out there. Yeah, there's a few. Okay, cool. In the Blues Brothers, to give you some context, they're on a mission. And you might remember, they're on a mission from God. Right? And so, it begs the question as we spend our time talking about ministry, are we clear on the mission? Are we clear on the mission? So also, I'm from Scranton, so I love The Office and Dwight Schrute. So, if you don't get my humor, that's okay. But here we are. So, are we clear on the mission? So the question is, where would you go in the Bible to get clarity around the mission? And I think the best place we could start is we ask that question, are we clear on the mission? Is Matthew twenty eight eighteen through 20. You know it says, I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth, therefore go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Teaching the new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you and be sure of this, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. This is about as clear instruction as we get into the mission as there is. And it's a mission of introducing people to Jesus and together fully following him. That's how we say it in our context, but it's how do we introduce people to Jesus and how do we help them become more and more like him. And I love how Paul talks about it in the book of Colossians. He says, he is the one we proclaim admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom so they may present everyone fully mature in Christ. To this end, I strenuously contend with all the energy that Christ so powerfully works in me. Here's what I know about you and here's what I know about me. This is why we do what we do. Right? We love people. We wanna see them know and follow Jesus. That's what gets you out of bed in the morning. But if you're like me, maybe this is also what keeps you up at night because I don't if you caught that mandate but it says, so that we may present who? Everyone. And what are we supposed to do? Fully mature in Christ. Right? That's a little scary. That's our job as a church is to introduce people to Jesus and help them become more like Jesus, to become fully mature followers. That's the mission in front of us. And it's a big mission and it's a daunting one. And it's one that we can't microwave or short change. Right? So what we do is extremely important. But we also know that God's with us. He says to the end of the age, he's not gonna leave us alone in that work. And so I just love this idea that we get to help introduce people to Jesus and together fully follow him. And our job is nothing short of everyone fully mature in Christ. And so again, you find that a little daunting, that's okay. I think that's sobering. But this is our mission. And so the question is this, what kind of environment is required for us to be successful in the mission of making disciples? What kind of environments? Or that's how we talk about it in our churches. How do we create environments where life change could happen? And we get a pretty good idea from the only other scripture outside of Matthew that actually uses that verb to make disciples. It's this in Acts fourteen twenty one. It says, after preaching the good news in Derbe and making many disciples, Paul and Barnabas returned to Lystra, Lyconium, and Antioch Of Presidium where they strengthened the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, reminding them that they must suffer many hardships to enter the kingdom of God. They appointed elders in every church and with prayer and fasting, they turned the elders over to the care of the Lord in whom they had put their trust. And so, is such a little helpful snapshot. You could see you've got highlighted things there, some elements of what it looks like to make disciples. They were strengthened. They reminded them of God's truths. They appointed leaders, and essentially they turned that over to other people who could lead. The point is that local churches, that are well led like the ones represented here at Rx twenty four, it's the ideal environment where life change could happen, where God could grow people. And so I want us to be encouraged by that reality that your churches are already an ideal environment where people can grow and flourish. And so I think that we need to take that in stock and realize that there's this other passage in Acts where I think that this could be true and should be true today. It says, the churches were strengthened in their faith and grew daily in numbers. So the last session we were doing a little breakout whiteboard session about discipleship and we talked about this idea of we don't wanna be a mile wide and an inch deep. And I don't think we have to choose. I think we make that dichotomy something when it's not because the early church didn't struggle with either one. They had the favor of all the people and they were strengthened. So they were growing strengthening their faith and growing daily in numbers. And the same could be true today. So the question is how can we measure that? How can we measure it? Again, asked about what the environments are. How do we know what the right breeding ground is? And so for us, again, we want whatever we're gonna measure and we're gonna talk about all the things that we measure here today. We want that to be rooted in scripture. And so for us, we go to the very first followers of Jesus to see what they did. And so acts chapter two gives us our snapshot for what we choose to measure as a church at LCBC. And so it says this, all the believers met together in one place and they shared everything they had. They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. They worship together in the temple each day, met in homes for the Lord's Supper and shared their meals with great joy and generosity, all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day, the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved. Again, I love looking at the early church. Actually, the other day, I I I don't typically do this, so this is not like a humble brag. This is just like I was I was doing this bible reading plan through Luke and Acts, and I was just like, I I just read through Acts just in one day because I was just compelled as I was looking at this very first century church and thinking, God, what were you doing here? And how do we recapture some of that? And so this is what we pull out as we look at that. What does it look like to fully follow Jesus? So here are some of the habits that we see through this passage and they're the very same habits that we measure as a church. So they gathered together with other Christians to worship. All the believers met together in one place. They were connecting and investing in Christ centered relationships. They met homes for the Lord's Supper. They served others as Christ served the world. And in doing that, they shared everything they had. They gave everything they had to serve one another. They had a heart for people far from God. And how do we know that? Because each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved. Those who weren't there yet were being invited to come and check it out. And they lived generously with what they had. They sold their property and possessions and shared their money with those in need. And so the question for you today is what if we focused on those same behaviors? What if we focused on the very same behaviors as the first century church? This is what we've chosen to do as we help people grow at our church. And I wanted just a couple caveats to this is what what does it look like to fully follow Jesus? And so for us, here's how we define it. A disciple is someone who is engaged in their faith, actively learning to do what Jesus did. That's how we define discipleship. We talked a little bit about it in our breakout, in our whiteboard session. But it's people who are engaged in their faith. They're actively learning to do what Jesus did because that's the job that's been set before us. And so here's our leveraged bet. If we can move people to be more engaged in our church, they are more likely to be engaged in their faith to fully follow Jesus. Ultimately, we can't make anybody move. Like, we don't have the power to do that. But we could set the table, we could set the stage, we could create environments where we think that life change is more likely to take place. And for us, it's through those five engagements. And so again, if we could get them engaged in our church, then they could be engaged in their faith. And so, big idea as we go on today is that you need a system. You need a system. Your system does not have to be our system. Alright? It could be. You could look at those things. I mean, it's not exclusive to us. We didn't create them. We ripped it off from scripture. We think you should rip it off from scripture wherever you choose to rip it off from scripture. Right? That's the important thing. But how we measure it, it doesn't have to be how you measure it. Okay? But you need to figure out a way to measure it. And you need a system, especially as you experience growth. And so here's where my family comes into that. So this is my wife and I, fourteen years ago, at a pumpkin patch, she's holding a pumpkin and she's carrying Evelyn, our daughter there, who's over on the other picture. And so that picture of Evelyn is now so I'm sorry. That was about eleven years ago that picture was taken, and then Evelyn was about a year old in that picture. When our family was like this, we didn't have much of a system. My wife and I could come and go. We could do whatever we wanted to do. We wanted to go out to eat, we'd go out to eat. We wanna go catch a movie, we go catch a movie. If you've got any babies in the car seat stage, it's a beautiful thing because you just pick them up and you take them wherever you want to go. And they might throw a stink, but it's Okay. They're portable. Is our family now. It's chaotic. I was telling some of you, five and a half years in, we're just getting out of survival stage. And we can't do anything. I don't have any hobbies anymore, right? It's like go home, make sure the kids are fed, they eat like ravenous wolves, and then you put them to bed, and then you put them to bed, and then you're like, hey, you want do anything? No, let's go to bed. Rinse and repeat. Like that's what life looks like. We were able to be spontaneous. We didn't need a system when we were a smaller family. But as our family grew, we needed a system. And the same is true in churches. The same is true in churches. This is Bob. Okay, I don't know if you know Bob, but I have a relationship with Bob. Right? This is how it works out in smaller churches. I have a relationship with Bob. I know Bob. We grab breakfast every month. You know, I know his family. I can poke and pry at the areas where I think Bob needs to take steps to grow. This happens very organically because we have a relationship. And because I have proximity to Bob, Bob heeds what I say. It means something to him. I'm his pastor. That that like he cares about that. Right? But you guys know the dynamic of growing churches is that there's a lot of Bobs. Right? There's a lot of Bobs. And you can't have proximity with each and every person. You just can't do it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have proximity with some. So again, don't mishear me saying, as we grow, we can't have relationship because the very nature of the local church is that it should be local, that we should have connection. But the reality is that you need to scale. The early church had to do this too. It was growing like crazy and they had to develop systems and processes to stay organized and to be effective in their mission. And the same is true of us today. And so just because I don't have proximity to Bob doesn't mean that I can't help. And so I want you to think through this way because sometimes again we get in our head that systems could be icky. But systems are a way to steward our faithfulness to the mission of Jesus. That's all systems are. They're there to help us. They're not the thing we're worshiping. They're not the thing that we wake up thinking about. They're a tool to help us be faithful in this work that God has given to us. And so you need a system. You need a system. So I'm gonna share with you today a little bit about our system, about two intentional ways that we do this and we're gonna unpack that together to use technology to make ministry personal. And the question at hand is what if we get this wrong? Like what if we get this wrong? What if we don't do a good job with the mission that God has entrusted to you and to me? And this is a quote from Dallas Willard. I won't read it all to you, but it's from the spirit of the disciplines. And he said this, that churches are filled with undisciple disciples. Most problems in contemporary churches can be explained the fact that members have not yet decided to follow Christ. And non discipleship costs something. He says it costs abiding peace. He goes on to list other things that it costs. In short, it costs exactly the abundant life that Jesus said he came to bring. The reality is that we have churches who are full of people. God has entrusted those people to you and to me to be faithful to help them become to know him and then to grow to become more like him. That's our mission. And it's gonna cost us something. And we have to be careful to make sure we're doing the best job in our ability to make sure that we're actually helping people grow. And I think we can do that. And that's what we wanna talk about today. And so two guiding principles as we get started, and then we'll unpack these here together. We wanna start intentionally, and we wanna measure what matters. Alright. Start intentionally and measure what matters. And so as we talk about starting intentionally, I wanna talk to you about our attendee onboarding process. Again, it's a process. It's a system for us to make sure that we are having intentional conversations with people who are new to our church. If your church is growing, then that's a blessing. You know that God is bringing new people to your door each and every weekend. Each and every weekend at LCBC, we know that we're gonna have new people. And we wanna do everything we can to steward that relationship well, and so we need a system for that. And so for us, our attendee onboarding process is a sixteen week focus window to move people towards engagement. And so before COVID, we actually took about three years of just experimenting, of developing best practices. We let campuses because I don't if you guys know if you live in a campus central model. Campuses love to experiment. They love to do their own thing. They're gonna do it anyway. And so we said like, hey, we're trying to figure out best practices. You can laugh because it's true. And that's great. They should. Like, we shouldn't be scared of that. And so we said, we want you to go figure out what are the best way to help people stick. Because I don't know if you know this, but churches have a backdoor problem. Like, people come in and then they disappear and we don't know it. And so we're trying to close that backdoor. So the AOP for us, as we named it, attendee process, is our way of just keeping track of that. So for three years, we let them experiment. What's the best way to help people get engaged? So then we measured those. We used the tool four disciplines of execution, and people put that into their whirlwind of our staff meeting every week across all the campuses. And we said, hey, here's the most effective kind of systems or processes to help people stick. And then we said, cool, you all experimented for three years. Now we're going to tighten that window, Okay? And we're going to say, we want you to do this process. So you helped create it, but now here's the process we're all going to stack hands and say we're going to go after. And what we found was that when people we just actually redid these numbers because, again, vision leaks and we're trying to help our own people understand the importance of these processes we found that if people within that first year, if they would get engaged in the five engagements that we have of gather, connect, serve, get out, live generously, if we can move them to do that within our first year through starting with this first sixteen week effort, they were actually 500 times more likely to be there a year later. So for us, we just said we can't argue with that. Like that's gonna help people stick because they're gonna become engaged in our church and they're gonna begin to engage in their faith. That's what we found. And so we championed this process. And here's a little bit of what that looks like for you. So first attendance, again, because we do check-in, so we have adult check-in. And so when somebody lets us know they're there for the first time, and we have about a 50 to 60% adoption rate of weekend attendance, again, for adults. That's not kids, that's not students, that's 14 and up. They let us know that, then we have an email with a survey link from the campus pastor, so that goes out in a timely manner. And then they get a handwritten note card for a $5 gift card. So again, we're evaluating all this stuff and we do that on a kind of a micro level. So we found that for a bunch of people, they don't even use that gift card. And so we're like, cool, could we save $5? Would that affect the process or not affect the process? And so those are the questions we're asking. We're figuring it out. We're constantly tweaking. But this is what we do currently. So no week, no second week attendance. They get a note card with a link to the message and a kind of a free treat card to the cafe. The second attendance, when they check-in with us for the second time, we actually do what's called a cookie drop. And so what that means is a volunteer actually shows up at their door with cookies. And so again, was sharing with some of you earlier. We've got 23 campuses. The largest is 6,000 people. The smallest one probably ranges more around the 100, one hundred and 50 mark. Doesn't matter what campus size, there's a system in place. So if it's your second time, you get cookies delivered to your door. And this creates a wow factor for people. It's a surprise. And God uses those connections. What we've created a system for, people see as the hand of God, and it is. They could concern they could go hand in hand. Right? So we just found out last week from somebody, we get these stories again a lot, but somebody was just having a real tough day. They felt unseen. They were just kinda struggling. And an LCBC volunteer shows up at their door with a bag of cookies they baked and a note card. And they just started crying and hugged them because they felt seen and heard from God in that moment because systems help us steward our faithfulness to that mission. And then third attendance is an invitation to first steps. And so for us, first steps is our new to LCBC environment. And it's either two kind of one hour and a half classes or it happens in one three hour format. We cover two things. We talk about our values and how that informs how we do church. So that's others, excellence, authenticity. That those are the things that we strive for in relationships. Those are our four values. So we cover that and we say, because of that, you might notice we do church this way. And then we cover, how do you grow your faith here? And we literally just unpack the five engagements with them and the tools that we have for them to engage their faith because we want them to know these are the things we want you to be a part of. And so again, as we steward this process, people then get engaged in those activities and we see their faith begin to grow. So again, there's some key activities and baseline metrics there. You can take a picture of that if you want. But you'll see we have baked in goals like more guests within the onboarding window, move guests from the onboarding window to First Steps, Growth Track, or other group settings. And so we have a goal. How do we get 20% of our third time guests to attend First Steps? Because we know if we can get them there, they're gonna know how to engage with our church and how to engage with their faith. And so this is the process that we've put in place to be able to to start intentionally to say, hey, if God's gonna give us new people, how do we leverage those relationships well and intentionally? And so all of our staff are out looking to have connections with those people that fall in that window. They're having intentional conversations. They're remembering their name because we want people to see to feel seen and known in our church. So we start intentionally and then we measure what matters. And for us, again, this goes back to engagement. And so for us at our church, our discipleship strategy is engagement. So the five engagements in LCBC are ongoing behaviors. They're not tasks to complete, which means none of us have arrived. Again, we don't believe that any of us will arrive this side of eternity. Right? We create environments where ongoing growth can happen. So the the illustration we give for this is greenhouses. Right? We can't make a plant grow, but a greenhouse sets the environment for that growth to take place. Right? We can control some of the elements and the factors that makes growth happen more naturally. And so who are we trying to engage? Well, this becomes a critical question, one that we need the data for. Who are we trying to engage? Anyone that has done one of these five behaviors in the last twelve months. So if anybody has come to one gathering, if anybody's attended a group one time, if anybody's been on a serve team, if anyone's given any amount of money, they become what we call an active lead. And so that'll make more sense here in a minute. Okay? So here's what we measure. Here's how we measure it. Again, you don't have to agree with our measurements or how we measure it. This is a baseline metric for us. It's one that we've been using over the past three to four years, and it's subject to change. So we could come back next year and be, hey. You know what? We decided we needed to tweak that because we're constantly looking at this. But here's how it breaks down. Gather, together with other Christians to worship. So gather, the activity then would be gather, attend a weekend gathering. And so we'd consider somebody engaged in that activity if they check-in four times in the past eight weeks. So does that that means that we have people who have been there more than that, but they're not letting us know through check-in. That's great. We just don't have that data. We're measuring the data that we have. And so an engagement would be four times in the last eight weeks they'd be engaged in the gather metric. Connect and invest in Christ centered relationships, that's people participating in a group. This is four group attendances in the past six months. Again, you don't have to like that metric or that measurement. That's just the one we've started with. So that's saying, you know, again, we do groups on a semester model. So they happen, you know, typically there's between six to eight group meetings. And so if somebody checks in for half of those in a six month period of time, we'd consider them engaged in a group. Same metric for serving, serve others as Christ served the world. So serve somewhere within our church. That's what we count right now. So we're not counting externally people who serve in some of our other initiatives. That's important. And for us, that's a gateway for them to enter even using their gifts to serve the church on a week to week basis. But again, that's four check ins in the last six months. So it's when people volunteer at our church, we either have automated check-in for them based on their role, or we have a check-in process where they actually go and scan and check-in as a volunteer, like on a Sunday morning. So it varies depending on your volunteer position. For a group leader, for example, when they take group attendance, that also marks for their serve attendance. So it's just some of the ways that we found how people engage. And then have a heart for people far from God. This is the invite. Invite others to experience life change. We don't have one yet. Okay? So we have tools to help people invite. We just don't have a great way to measure this yet. And so we've kinda got lag measures for that. Like again, are we seeing numbers continue to grow? Are we seeing more people be baptized? That's not hard empirical data. We just don't have a great way to measure that one yet. And then generous with what they have. So they give financially to our church. And so we've defined that as four times in the last twelve months, or $2,500 in the past twelve months. And so again, there's nothing magical about those numbers, that's just kind of where we drew a baseline. If people are giving four times, it's an indicator that they're engaged in saying, hey, this is my church. Or if they've given a larger sum of money, it's also indicating that, hey, we believe in what's happening here and we're in. And so what we have are then tools that support this. So what we're looking at here is what we call our active lead explorer. So I'll tell you a little bit about this here and just make sure that I get it right. So this is our engagement table. So you'll see there we have roughly 32,000 people who are engaged in our church. That's attendees who in the last twelve months have done one or more of those activities. Okay, just one or more of those activities. That means they could have come once, they could have been in a group once. But we've got around 32,000 people who we know of who've engaged in one of those activities. And then as you go on, have what we call an ES one plus. That's an engagement score of one. That means that they are actually engaged, they meet the engagement criteria that we just talked about in one of those areas. And so we've got around just shy of 17,000 people who hit that engagement score. And then it gets broken down into how does that look through each specific engagement. So around gather, we've got around 9,500 people who have, again, come four times in the last eight weeks. For connect, we've got around 3,500 people who've had four group check ins in the last six months. For serving, we've had around 4,000 people who in the last six months have checked in four times with us. Or for give, we've got just shy of 12,000 people who've either given four times or more in the past twelve months, or they've given an amount of $2,500 So again, this is just the data that we have. Now the data is not gospel, it just helps us make informed decisions, okay? And that's on an organizational level. So we have tools where we break that down. So this is by location trend. So we're looking at our Ephrata location here. This is one of our it's like our second largest location. They have a few thousand people who come on the weekend. So you can see for active leads, it gives you their number by week. And so they've got around 2,300 active leads at Ephrata, and they've got around 1,300 with an engagement score of one. And then that breaks it down to how many in each category. So around 800 for gather, 200 for groups, 300 for serving, and around a thousand for giving. And then they could actually track that with the organizational average. So that shows you again their total active leads at Efrita would be around 2,300. With an engagement score, they've got around 1,300 who hit an ES one plus, so that's about 58%, which trends just kinda over the organizational average for that. So again, what is all this? Are we having people look at this like a report card every week and they're worried about it? No. It's a snapshot. It's an insight to the people that we're serving. And so we're trying to gain organizational benchmarks to say, hey, how are we doing relative to the rest of the organization because we have 23 campuses plus church online to benchmark off of. So it just helps us know how does that look like, how are we driving consistency. But here's where I get real excited about all this because to be honest, I'm not a real big data head. For me, it's more about the personal thing and how do we do this. So here's how this breaks down on a person's profile. If you were to go to our profiles in Rock, you would see that I have an ES one plus engagement score. I mean, I hit the criteria for one of those engagement scores. And then if you hover over that, it'll actually show you the individual what they're engaged in. And so I'm engaged in gather, connect, serve, and give. I'm not engaged in invite because we don't have a way to measure that. And again, that's one that I can honestly probably do better at because you guys know the tension when you work at a church, it's actually harder to get out and build relationships with people outside of the church. And so I have my neighbors, I have kids friends, those are the people I invite. We don't have a way to quite measure that yet. Right? But this helps us know where are people engaged. Here's what I get excited for then. It helps us have actual pastoral conversations with people on the personal level. Because now rather than kinda just guessing, hey, how do I help somebody grow? I could look at their profile. Right? Go back to my Bob example. I don't have proximity to all the Bobs. And so I could go on their profile and say, hey, how can I help this person grow? So I could look at my campus level and say, hey, how are we doing in this area? And say, cool. And this is how we let campuses lead. They could look at any of these five areas of gather, connect, serve, get out, live generously. And they could say, hey, we want to make a concerted effort as a campus to raise our engagement in this area. And so they could influence their campus by choosing to do that and by choosing to lead through that. But it's also on an individual level as we're helping people. And so we're still figuring out, hey. How do we give group leaders access to this kind of thing? So on their in their groups, they could even know what are people engaging in and how can we give them access to be able to have conversations. Now a couple caveats with this is that, again, we want to teach people that sometimes the data is not right. We have the data that we have. And so if I'm showing up here and it says that I'm not gathering, it could be that I haven't been coming to church. Right? That's likely maybe my kids were sick for a month straight. It's not that uncommon. Right? Or maybe I just forgot to check-in. I'm on staff at the church and sometimes I forget to check-in. It's like, oh, no. Right? Because I'm looking at all the other things. Even though we tell everybody every week, check-in, I could skip that. So we can't use the data blindly and just be, well, I noticed you haven't been here in two months. And then someone's like, what are you talking about? I'm here every week. And I had a conversation with you last week. Oh, right. Right. So we have to use the data as a tool. It's our guide. It's not gospel. And so we gotta be smart about how we use that. And so part of that is training our team. How do you go in with these tools to be able to have the right conversation? And so one of the ways, again, a tool that we have to be able to effectively go about essentially targeting people is what we call our Active Lead Explorer. And so this is just a tool that we're able to use. You could choose by your location, demographic, gender, engagement score. You can get granular down to what engagement score. But this could be, hey, I want to target people who aren't men who aren't in a group, but who have been coming to the gathering. And so we could use this tool to generate a list from our campus to then have focused communication. So rather than having the blanket, hey, you should join a men's group, and it's like, well, I'm in four men's groups already. I don't wanna join another men's group. We could use this tool to say, hey, let's get the right people on our communication list so we're more likely to have movement in those areas. And so that's been a game changer. The other thing that this helped us with, by the way, is for those of you who love all the database stuff, and Adam in the back would attest to it, is it cuts down on all the specific reports that people want. It's like, hey, can I have a report for a, b, c, and d? This solves 95 of us to say, hey, you could use the Active Lead Explorer to get that information. And so it lets our team focus on the right focuses. And so essentially, just take this as a case sample as we wrap up our time. We've got Rob and Susan Miller, they've got an engagement score of two. They're married both in their early forties. We have all this information because it lives in Rock. They have a fourth grade son and a seventh grade daughter. They first attended in February, and so I could see they have an engagement score of gather and connect. And so I could use this information to then have informed pastoral conversations to say, hey, what would it look like maybe to get them to move into serving? They're not serving yet, maybe because they're busy with their kids, but maybe they want more time with their kids. And we could say, hey, have you thought about serving in one of our kid or student environments? You'd be more engaged with what's happening in your kid's life, you get some time with them, and you get to help others along the way. Or they could turn out to hate kids and they don't have to do that too, that's fine. You could say, cool, they've attended their life group, maybe they wanna lead a group. And so it's like, hey, you're really engaged in group, would you be considering to help others to be able to do that? So again, it just gives us an opportunity to get granular and to say how do we know these people so we can have a conversation. We'll skip the second one for the sake of time. And so question, what will you measure? What will you measure? You've got to decide what that's going to be. And we could use the data we have to make informed decisions. But you can't measure with data that you don't have. And so for us, it's been a gift to be able to have this data and to be able to mine that. And ROC has been a great tool for us in that, especially even with the gathering metric. So again, that's just a gift that a lot of churches don't have, but you could begin to do that. And then what is your system? What is your system? Again, your system doesn't have to be our system, but you need a system as you grow because that's one of the ways that we stay faithful to the mission of Jesus. So I don't know why I have music there, but, questions. We have about ten minutes.