Podcast Episode 87: Episode 61: Life.Church and Rock RMS

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Join us as we interview Information Technology Team Lead Tyler Vance about how they are using Rock RMS at Life.Church.

Transcribed Content

This episode of Rockcast is brought to you by Rock partner Triumph Tech, a full service specialist partner. Rock partners provide crucial support for Spark Development Network and important services for the Rock community. Connect with Triumph Tech today at rockrms.com/partners. Welcome to this special edition of Rockcast. Typically, with our special editions, we take you behind the scenes to meet a member of our staff and learn about what they're doing, how they're involved with the community, and how they came to be with Rock. But today, we have an extra special guest who is not a member of our staff. I'm Emily Forman. I have Jon Edmiston here with me, and I'd to introduce Tyler Vance. Tyler leads the information technology team at Life Church, and this team equips staff members across their 33 locations with the technology needed to lead people to become fully devoted followers of Christ. Tyler's passionate about leveraging technology to see lives changed and giving volunteers the ability to use their technology skills for building the church. Tyler and his wife, Nicole, live in Oklahoma City with their children, Tripp and Harper, and so he is joining us today via a Zoom link. And we are going to talk about a really interesting and special partnership. Tyler, why don't you say hello? Hello. Thank you, Emily. That's quite the introduction. I hope to live up to that. I'm excited to join you guys today and really kind of bring public knowledge to the partnership that we've had going on behind the scenes for a little bit with Life Church and Rock and how we are as a church utilizing something that you have so graciously and technology savvy built to impact the capital c Church. And so we're excited to be here today and and to be a part of what God is doing with Spark and Rock and Sparkability. Well, thanks for joining us today, Tyler. We're really excited about this too. I think probably the word has leaked out a little bit in the community that Life Church has been looking at Rock for a little bit. And and I know our team has been in conversations with yours and working behind the scenes for a little while. So we're excited to have things to the point where we can bring this out and mention it to the community because a lot of questions have been surfacing. So hopefully we can give some answers today and just be able to help people see what kind of some plans are. And and I know there's a lot of curiosity out there, so today we should be able to answer some good questions. Tell us a little bit about what the state of Rock is inside Life Church today. Yeah, absolutely. Last year, we began utilizing Rock for our LifeGroup's team. We use it for attenders to find a LifeGroup and then for leaders to be able to manage their LifeGroup. We had such a great experience with that, that at the beginning of this year we started to roll out Rock as our check-in utilization for the weekend. And so right now at all of our locations we use Rock for all of our basic church management needs and it's our primary church management system now. So pretty exciting news and pretty exciting place that we're at with you and your team. Yeah. It's super exciting to have you part of the community and to actually see it in use in such a huge scale. Yeah. Yeah. It's been it's been a great journey. So we're we're thankful for the ministry that it's created and hopeful for what it will continue to do in our church. And you gave a part of our team the opportunity a couple weekends ago to come out and experience check-in live at several of your campuses. I think that was the first weekend that it was live across all 33 campuses. And that was really quite an experience. It very, very interesting to see everything in action. I know that the scale that you're operating at at Life. Church exceeds anything that we've been working with and supporting for other churches as well. So it's been a really very interesting process for us to see it and to help work alongside with you to make sure that the scalability measures that you need are in place in Rock. Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating to watch your team do the implementation because I think it is kind of a best practice of how to do it. I mean, nothing was taken for granted. There's tests done, I mean, tests done, and just every detail that your team looked at and thought ahead of was super impressive. I think, , the fact that it went so smoothly is really a testimony to how hard and how much thought went into it from your team. Well, I'd say, John, back at your team and the partnership there, we were able to do it in a really quick timeline. And that was because of the partnership of A, it's a great product. It's an easy intuitive product that makes ministry happen. But your team was also there to provide us in a couple critical moments where we hit walls where we wouldn't have been able to move forward if it wasn't for the partnership that you guys have had. So it's been great. Yeah. And I think it's what's cool is when we ran into those obstacles, , we were able to work together to to see them through, you guys provided us some good telemetry data to see exactly what we needed to be changed. We make those changes. But but the winner of the whole thing is the Big C Church because the optimizations that we work together on are now out there or will be out there in an upcoming release for everybody, and that makes everybody better, makes everybody faster, and everybody can scale easier and cheaper. Yeah. That's one of the things I'm most excited about too is in working with and partnering with Life Church on the things that you need, your team has really displayed an intense interest in helping the entire community. And so on so many occasions, we've had some member of Life Church come to us and say, hey, this is the thing that we need. How do we make sure that this can benefit everybody? And that's just such an incredible and really powerful thing that you're doing that does benefit the whole community, and that attitude is exactly what will make Rock work for everyone. And so, , I just wanna say thank you for demonstrating that. I know it can take extra work to not just do the thing that you need to do to make it work for you, and you definitely have the talent in house to just make everything work for Life. Church and and not worry about community, but you've purposefully engaged in community with Rock. And we've already we're already seeing the benefits playing out in the community because of that. So that's really exciting. Yeah. Tell you, Emily, that's one of the things that we're most excited about is how we can partner together to impact the capital C Church. I truly believe that when we use our resources together, God's going to show up in ways that we've never seen. And so one the really fun things I'm looking forward to is a lot of my team have been in the rocket chat channels as undercover agents, so to say. And so a lot of these guys that are have been secret will now have a Life. Church affiliation with them and some of the community has been interacting. So we're so excited to be able to come into the community and learn, first of all, because there's a lot of stuff we have the ability to learn, but then also give back in ways that we can't, so. Well, brings up a really interesting topic. So I think the first time that I remember running into you and your team was that at our twenty seventeen Rock conference? Was it RX twenty seventeen? So let's go back in time a little bit and talk about how we first met your team and kind of interacted together and what that looked . Because we didn't really have any notice. I think you guys registered pretty late for the conference and and showed up and and took your name badges and stuck them in your back pockets and just kind of lurked around the outside of the conference. But I'm very curious to know what it was that was going through your minds at the time as you were kind of evaluating what was going on there. Yeah. First off, you highlighted that our we wanted to be inconspicuous. Yes. And so, we actually didn't bring any of our branded clothing or anything with us and so a few facial recognitions were all that happened out of that. Our goal really as we began the initial evaluation was just the state of kind of where the platform was and what it had the ability to scale to and what kind of ministry it had the ability to enable for us. So anytime we're making a decision that, it's a primary ministry decision. It's less about technology and it's more about ministry. And so, we had a vision for what ministry should and could be, and we're looking for a technology partner that enabled that, not that we had to fit into that. That makes a lot of sense. And I think, John, we must have been on what version six at that time? I think we were talking about six because I remember that we were talking about entity commands was the big one at Okay. At that conference. And I and I think that, , keeping it quiet was a strategic thing. Definitely. Because I think too many churches chase after what everybody else is doing. Mhmm. And sometimes it's not to say that if it works for this church, it works for every church, or it works for that church, it'll work for you. And and the opposite is true too. It's not that if it doesn't work for this church, it's not for another one. And I think that's where it was important just to really make sure that we communicated it when enough due diligence had been done, when enough effort had been put in so that we don't have people just making decisions because of what somebody else does. That's right. And, Tyler, I the fact that you mentioned you were looking for a ministry partner to go to work alongside and walk alongside you with your goals and your visions. And I think sometimes it's all too easy to make a technology choice without considering what vision is, and not necessarily keeping to your organization's and your leadership's vision. So John, you said, not everything aligns with vision, and you're not probably going to find a technology solution that works for everyone in all cases. So it definitely is best in in those consideration moments to make sure that you're keeping your strategic vision and partnerships aligned moving toward the same goal, because it would be very easy to to sidetrack that. So definitely the keeping it quiet is a good move while you evaluate. But Rock was not in the current state that it is now when you were first starting to look at that. So we probably you were probably looking for a few more features that were in our roadmap at the time. Absolutely. In fact, we didn't it was June of this year that we actually released the first instance of Rock or June of last year, I'm sorry, that we released the first instance of Rock. So we've only been actively using the product for about eight months. And so there was a lot of development that took place. There was a lot of partnership, lot of conversations. I think we really kind of started conversations about a year ago with you guys of how do we handle this and how do we think about a longer term plan than just what is today. And that's where your partnership has been incredible on that. And so a lot of decisions along the way to get us to where we're at. Yep. And I know that that's been really beneficial to Rock too, because there were opportunities to consider scale that we hadn't considered in different ways before. Your team was really great to work with us and provide data and information very specifically back that allowed us to get right into the areas where we needed to adjust something for scale, and so that's been a really highly beneficial opportunity for the whole community. So now that we know kind of how things are at Life. Church with Rock and what you're doing with it right now, do future plans look ? Yeah. Well, right in the pipeline, I think the thing I'm most excited about is some of the partnerships that are already forging to build technology for the capital C Church. And so I know right now we're working on an SMS giving that will in partnership with another church that will release into the community. And so we've got a lot of giving stuff on the radar and how do we make giving just a more universal experience in Rock depending on whatever your provider is, whatever your back end choice is, you'll have the opportunity to funnel and filter that through the platform and use that in your ministry. And so I think that's really the the first kind of iteration of what we're we're looking through. And I think that project is really interesting because it's it's a a good example of collaboration among churches and among, the community. Because in that project, we have Shepherd Church, working on it in in joint development with, Life Church and Spark. And, , it's it's it shows that these churches come together, each with their own ideas, but not tied to them, not married to them, working to create something better that everybody can use. And while that sounds pretty obvious and easy, there's so many examples where that's not happening, where churches go into the dark corner, make something without talking to anybody else, because it seems easier. It seems, less, you have to do less work, especially emotional work of having to put your ideas out and then get them, , kind of adjusted about. And this is exactly what we need to be doing. It it's harder in the beginning, but it it always comes out better. And at the end of the day, it's it's exactly what the body of Christ is supposed to do. Right? We're not supposed to ears aren't supposed to go off into the corner and and Right. And listen, and then when they feel it, come back to the body and and hear and say what they heard. And I just I I think it's just great that, , we have this this kind of partnership, and and and you can see it. It's it becomes the role model of what should happen. Right. And I feel in working in partnership with your team, Tyler, that our team is able to learn and grow a lot. I know just to mention again the trip that we recently took out there, the openness your team has had in sharing things that have nothing to do with Rock and with that technology, but have to do with the processes and systems that you've established and put in place has been so helpful in us not having to recreate some operational wheels. And so that just openness that you've held, all of the things that rightfully belong to Life. Church, that have been established and created inside the organization itself, has been highly beneficial to us, and when we're able to not invest as much time into something because you have helped give insights and feedback and experiential knowledge, we can stay that much more on focus and on task in doing the thing that we're uniquely set up to do here, which is to provide Rock to the community and to continue to build and shepherd that. So we have learned some really interesting things in working together with you. John, what really strikes you from that trip that we took to visit out there? What are some interesting things that we've learned in working with Life. Church? Well, I think it's it's the system mindset that, , think through plan, run the plan. And I've been out a few other trips before and had seen that a little bit, but I think this last trip really kinda hit it home. And and and even in the small things, how you guys prepare your materials to get it out to the campuses, and everything has metrics, everything has systems. And we're going through that process right now on our team, making sure we have all these systems. So I think it's encouraging and inspiring to see the level of systems. Right. And if I had to sum up what everyone should know about Life. Church, I would definitely say that it's the systemization, and that's what allows the creativity to happen, that's what allows the ministry to happen. It seems your ministry leaders are able to focus on ministry because they have the support of a thoroughly vetted system that's also constantly it's a living process. So it's being updated, tweaked, and refined constantly to be a great support to your team leaders and your ministry leaders. Yeah. I wanna push back a little bit on that, Emily. I would say first off, thank you for what you're saying, but we give away because it's God's. It's not life churches. It's not life churches to own. It's not life churches to do anything with other than steward. And so all of the secondary resources that we have, all the tribal knowledge of how we do a process or something that, it's an opportunity that God has shown us to steward something for the church. Are about growing the church as a whole and any way we can do that, we want to be a partner with that. And so just want you to carry that perspective with you. Hope whatever role you're sitting in, whatever seat you sit in at your church, you have the opportunity to steward the things that God has given you. They are not things that you control. They are things that you have to hold open handed because God could abuse anyone and he chose you and he's giving you the ability and he expects the return from that. And so that's just the posture that I want my team to have. It's a posture I want the community to have. And with that together we can do something amazing. I know that. And so just perspective there for you of how we view that and the continuation that you'll continue to see that from us as a church, as we move forward. Yeah. And that you're already having that impact. I mean, it's so incredible. That, is such a powerful and eternal perspective, and it's definitely one that we agree with and one that we build into our core values here at Rock too. And I think that's why we've seen this really incredible organic partnership come to light is because we are we're already naturally both walking that path. So it's pretty incredible to see you're further down that path than Spark is, and to see that impact is really inspiring. And to see how openly you share it is really incredible. So now that you've worked with us a little bit and our team, how we operate, and you've met with a lot of our team individually at different times. What would you say everyone should know about working with Rock, Spark, SparkAbility? Yeah. Don't cross Emily. That's what Wait. What? You'll get random gifts sent to your office. I'm not sure I was behind that. No I will tell you this. You guys are stewarding something amazing and the contribution and the ability to be open handed with a product that is world class is absolutely a forefront of what the church needs to see and what the church is seeing. And so I I just want you to hear from my perspective that you guys aren't behind the curve on that, you just said. You are absolutely leading the way. And so working with your team it's you said it's an organic partnership because it's minded people. Mhmm. Your team's heart for the church, for ministry to happen, for change lives, for our cities that we're in to be different. It bleeds into every conversation, and I'm so thankful for it. And it's just been a blessing to be that. We haven't had I know we've had high tension moments already and they've all been great to work through because of that unified vision, that ability to move forward. And so as long as that continues to happen, we're in a great place. And I think any church that gets involved with that is gonna have the same experience. I don't think we're unique in that. And so So what is your best advice for a church that's considering Rock today? Make it a ministry decision. And so I so oftentimes, we look at technology through the lens of how how the technology is the best. And so just put the other lens on that ministry happens and what is the tool that we can use to make ministry happen the best. And sometimes that leads you down the trail of not choosing the technology that you believe should be chosen. But it leads you to the technology that should be chosen. That's how we ended up with Rock. It was in every way a technology that made ministry happen. And if if you look through the lens with ministry first, you're always gonna arrive at the right place. Alright. You. That's great. So, John, what would you say that churches should consider if they're looking at Rock? What what should they know about the platform, about the community, about our road map? Well, I I would say too, , a church's problems are our problems. Mhmm. We we really do feel that way. We we feel we're in we try to be in the trench as much as we can, that it is a community. But I think there's a lot of patterns to learn from the the Life. Church implementation that and this isn't unique to Rock, but you have to put effort into this. This isn't a magic wand. And I think it's it's easy to look at Life. Church and say, well, yeah, but they have all these people. Yeah. But they have a lot of scale they have to worry about, and they have a lot more problems. More people, more problems. There's no ex there's there's no easy button. And and I think when you watch big churches do it, you think, well, but they have all these other things and it's easier for them. It's not. It's actually probably much harder for them. And I think what we can learn from is you've gotta, , put your your get your hands dirty, get in there, test things correctly, have a have a plan of how you're gonna do it. This doesn't require developers. This doesn't require, , super technical people. It it does require some effort. And whether you do that with Rock or with the other product that you you're going with, you're gonna have to do that to be successful. So I think whenever you hear these big churches, we always get the yeah, buts. Mhmm. what? Not really. The problems are the same. Yeah. They have more people, but they have more things they have to worry about and scale and everything else. So also too, I think it's interesting, , working with Life Church. If any church of size had the ability to come in and say, hey, this is way we wanna do it. Bam. Do it. They they they would be the ones who could do that, but they're the exact opposite. I mean, they're so easy to work with. They're always looking out for, Tyler said, big c church. Mhmm. Even in micro features and and the projects we're working with, we we might say, yeah, that's that's awesome. , let's do it that way, but can we add this little feature here because some other churches might wanna do it that way? Oh, yeah. Let's do that. I mean Mhmm. It's just that collaboration that it's just nice to work with big churches who are that, because they have the ability to not be that, but they choose to be good community members and and just good people to partner with. Mhmm. Yeah. And John, I'll highlight the effort that's required determines the outcome. Oh, that's good. And so Mhmm. Rock is not in it's not an, just throw it out there and it happens. we had to go through and talk through ministry process with every single thing. And so, it requires a lot of not technology, I think you said that really well. You don't need a developer on your team. You don't need a magical thing. From a technology perspective, it's really easy but you have to walk through ministry process to implement it well. And, and just throwing technology out there and expecting people to use it because it's technology is always going to end in failure. You have to walk people through the process of what the outcome they're trying to to do with it, and and that's how we win. And the implementation phase for churches is a great time to clean up processes, because sometimes they just kind of develop into something they weren't ever meant to be over time, and even the best technology can't fix process problems. So it's a great time to to look at that. But I I know when we were out there, you brought out a box that had a whole bunch of labels in it, more labels than I've seen from one test ever. And didn't you check-in during the testing process, didn't you check-in at one campus all the people that had checked in the previous weekend just as a test. Is that is that how that went? Yes. So we verified all systems by every location and every role that someone could check-in at. We pulled five random tags and test checked them in. And so it was quite a few tags. Let's put it A lot of tags. And the reason I bring that up is because that is a demonstration of the effort that's involved to have a smooth process. It isn't just that it works, but your team put a ton of effort into that. So that is one thing I think churches need to know if they're considering Rock. you said, no easy button. And right now, it's pretty early in the in the process for Rock. I mean, don't have a hosted solution yet. We're working on that. So there are some things that a church needs to do as far as effort goes to be successful with Rock. And so they should just consider that, and you'd you'd wanna have somebody at your organization that is kind of the lead person to think about things through a Rock lens and to help consult with ministries about what needs to be done. Somebody needs to learn the system. We have some great training programs for that, but somebody needs to know what's going on. The technology won't just independently solve things for you. Right. Yeah. Technology is never the solution. Right? Right. And and so I think, Emily, we have a white paper that's gonna be releasing pretty soon that walks people through just a high level of how we rolled out. I think it'll give a good picture. If you're a church that's considering implementing Rock, what does it actually take? And I'll reiterate, from a technology perspective, it's easy. You guys have done such a good job of making it accessible to the capital C Church. It's the ministry side that takes the effort and time. And then John said, the verification, When you roll out a product, only have one chance to make a first impression. That's true. And so do it with excellence. Do it well. And it'll land your place in a great place. That's great. Well, Tyler, thanks for joining us today. Thank you so much for being an intentional member of the Rock community. We're looking forward to a great ongoing partnership. Yeah. Well, we're looking forward to publicly being out there and and what God does in the middle of that. And so thank you guys so much for everything you've done for us in the last year as we've partnered together behind the scenes and really looking forward to what God does as we move forward. So thank you guys. Well, thanks for being great member of the community and an example for other churches to follow in that way. We look forward to seeing you guys in the chat channel without having to hide the fact that they're there. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Alright. Thanks, Tyler. See you, Tyler. Yep. Today's show was produced by Emily Forman. Nick was our recording engineer who turned the dials and pushed the buttons. Jim Michael handled all the audio post production mixing. And our amazing show notes, which you can find at rockrms.com/connect, were transcribed and written up by Michael Garrison. Do a church that loves the idea of using Rock but hasn't taken that leap yet? With managed hosting, churches of any size can get access to Rock's amazing technology, hassle free. With just one click, Rock's managed hosting removes the roadblocks that might stop a church from switching to Rock by making the process simple. Churches get the ease of a SaaS church management system without losing any of Rock's powerful features. Are you ready to take the next step or share with another local church? Visit rockrms.com/hosting today.