Podcast Episode 106: Episode 80: Reflection on Mindset

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In the latest episode of Rockcast, we'll talk about Mindset. This is an incredible book that is a big part of our culture at Rock.

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This episode of Rockcast is brought to you by Rock partner Triumph Tech, a full service specialist partner. Rock partners provide crucial support for Spark Development Network and important services for the Rock community. Connect with Triumph Tech today at rockrms.com/partners. Welcome back to another edition of Rockcast, the podcast where we take you behind the scenes with Spark Development Network and Rock RMS. And today we have a very interesting topic of conversation. It's one that we refer to a lot internally with our staff that we kind of use every day in the things that we're working on and in our own personal development, and one that I had the opportunity to kind of present on a little bit at one of our recent staff meetings. So we just kinda wanted to share this topic with you as it's near and dear to the way we operate. And I personally have found a lot of life changing impact from this particular topic. Yeah. It's a passionate topic for you. It really is. It's something that you cover with every employee as they come in because it's it's important to our culture. It is important to our culture, and I definitely feel that it's important to me personally as well. So I maybe overplay it sometimes, I really think this is so crucial. So the topic today is mindset, and that is a book that you can read if you haven't read it, do. It's by Carol Dweck. It's called the subtitle I really love is How We Can Learn to Fulfill Our Potential. And potential is kind of a loaded word. Right? Because some of us define it one way and some of us define it another. But first I would say, I don't care if you're a reader or you're not a reader. Read this. , you read one book a year, this is your book. So you haven't done that yet in 2019, let's make it happen. If it's your 2020 book, let's make it happen. The basic concept is this, and science has backed this up over time. This is highly researched and a lot of other content and self leadership is now being based on this concept. People, subscribe to one of two mindsets. And one mindset is called the fixed mindset. Another is called the growth mindset. So let's just define these a little bit, and then we'll just kind of talk about maybe some ways we apply things and what that might mean. So if we define the fixed mindset, it will tell you that your personal belief is we're all kind of born with a lot of limitations, and we run into those limitations a lot. We have a fixed amount of intelligence. We have a fixed personality. Our moral character is exactly the way it was, early on that these things can't, be improved upon. So you better be born with a good big dose of them. And if you weren't, well, you're probably someone to be made fun of or or, , just to be concerned all the time that someone's going to stumble across the fact that you're not good enough. So it creates these kind of scenarios where you feel you have to hide what you feel your limitations are. So you put up these little false barriers. Sometimes people do it by making fun of someone else because it it moves attention away from them and directs it at someone else. And there are a lot of ways that people deal with having a fixed mindset that indicate they have a lot of anxiety on the inside, but they get really pushy toward the outside because they don't want the reflection to be I'm not good enough. Because I'm not good enough is an identity. Right? So they're owning the identity of I'm not enough. They're not saying I will be able to do this someday. They're saying I can't do it today, so I'm not it. So that's the fixed mindset. Now a growth mindset will tell you that all of these basic qualities are things that you can cultivate with effort over time. So those are the two key things, effort and time. When you put those together and you focus them at your intelligence or you focus them on your personality or your moral character, you are able to move those in a positive direction. And they tell us that our true potential is unknowable. These things are backed by science. And it's very interesting because what does that lead to if you have this growth mindset? It it leads you to really believe that if I just apply more effort right now, I can do that thing. So it gives you more of a can do attitude. Right? It it allows you to take feedback from someone in a much more positive way. Oh, they're telling me how I can improve. I can apply this right now. Where if you have a fixed mindset, it's, oh, they're uncovering that I'm not good enough. So the feedback is taken as an action item rather than a hit to your personal identity. Now the growth mindset says this, if I run into an obstacle, I can find a way around it. I can find a way through it. I can find a way to approach this and I will come out a better person. The fixed mindset says, if I run into an obstacle, I better give up, and I better make it as super obvious that I'm giving up on purpose so they don't think it's because I've just hit this limitation. So there's a lot of different ways to approach things. The other interesting perspective between the growth and fixed mindset is our take on someone else's success. So if you have a fixed mindset, someone else's success is really threatening. If you have a growth mindset, the success of someone else is fantastic. This is a really great thing. It indicates that we all can improve. And just by you might wanna go and ask feedback from that person. Hey, tell me some of the things that have been really helpful for you in your success. This isn't a threatening conversation. It's not saying, hey, you're better than I am. This is just more of a way to collaborate and connect across humanity. It also helps you reach higher levels of achievement. So technically, inside of our brains, whenever we approach new things and we work really hard, we can fire off new neural connections. And the more we go down those new pathways, the more stable they become, the easier it is for us to navigate and the less effort it takes to do that. If we're never trying new things, we're deeply entrenched into the same old things, and that's all we know how to do. And over time, we lose that elasticity. So it's very important for us to exercise our mind as a muscle, and that's really where this growth mindset comes in. So this is something we talk about all the time here. Yeah. Because it's important within our organization, and I really believe in in terms of our community to have that growth mindset that anybody can do anything if they put their minds to it. We have to select what we want to accomplish. We can't accomplish everything at once, but what are the things that we wanna specialize in? Right. And and a lot of the world says, hey. what? You're born with talent or you aren't. And we're not saying that at all. in Rock, nobody came in knowing how Rock worked. Right? We all have had to learn this and apply it the right way. So effort doesn't mean you failed because you didn't have it. Effort is a way to succeed, and that's a a vastly different take from both. Yeah. These were the most notes I ever took for a staff meeting when you covered this topic, and I love that one. Effort, The the fixed mindset thinks effort is only for people without talent. Yes. And what? As as you hear some of these things that Emily's talking about, it you you you can't help but, , think back of to some of the things that you might've been and done, been guilty of in your past. And we all have that. We do. I think you even said it was really impactful to you when you read it. And I'm, as I'm hearing this, I'm uncovering things in my own persona that I need to address. So it's an encouraging thing. , get out of that fixed mindset and realize it's it's you have to make a decision to flip a switch and think of things differently. And it's not easy. Right. And one one of my favorite quotes, , that ties right in what you're saying is Steven Furtick once said that most of us are not endangering of ruining our our lives. We're in danger of wasting them. Yeah. And that when I heard that, I was , oh my gosh. I feel so, , convicted to make sure that I'm not. I mean, to a certain extent, we're all wasting a certain piece of our lives. Sure. So how do we minimize that waste is really challenging. I think we limit ourselves through fear more than anything. Fear that someone else will discover who we really are. Fear that we're gonna hit that ceiling of what we can do, and everyone will see it and will look dumb. Fear of something. And I think if we can just identify what those fears are, and then we can say, well, okay, that might be true. Maybe the worst case thing is gonna happen, but I'm gonna give it a shot, and I'm gonna do it. I think what I've discovered, and and I think is a probably universally true, is that if you approach it with that and you say, well, I'm gonna give it a shot. And if the worst case thing happens, I can recover from that. And if the worst case doesn't happen, wow, I just discovered a whole new range of things I can approach and I can do. And I've found that to be very successful, and I've moved past some fears in some areas. But I will say none of us is 100% fixed or growth mindset. It's not a thing. So you're gonna keep uncovering areas where you feel a real fixed mindset. And a lot of times you'll find those in areas where you as a child were told certain things by adults. Right? So you might have been told, oh, you're so smart. Well, what happens when you get to the first biology test that you fail? Oh, I was so smart. I was so smart for second grade. I'm not so smart for tenth grade. I'm dumb. Tenth grade is my limit. Yeah. That happened to me in second grade. I was in first grade. I was, , one of the smart kids. In second grade, I got moved to the second reading group, which I later found out was because I had dyslexia. But at the time, , I literally thought, oh, okay. Well, I guess that's over. I guess I'm not smart anymore. Right. And the fun while it lasted? And it wasn't someone specifically telling me, , using those words, but I was , okay. I guess, well, that's done. And I was pretty much an average student through all the way through high school. And there are so many ways that, , adults or coaches or teachers or your boss, your first boss, the the people who interact with you and that seem to be in a position of respect can tell you things that promote a growth mindset or promote a fixed mindset. they say, hey, if you're talking to your kids, don't tell them you're so pretty, you're so smart. Tell them, wow, you put a lot of effort into that. Great job in making that happen. Or wow, that looked really easy for you. I'm sorry I didn't give you something that was challenging enough. I'll do a better job next time. And those kinds of things then start rewarding effort instead of rewarding appearance, and that makes a big difference. So I think, interestingly, I have found a great limitation in my own self talk. So a lot of times we talk to ourselves with a fixed mindset. Oh my gosh. Do you have any idea what an idiot you just looked there? Don't ever open your mouth on that subject again. And we say things to ourselves that we would never say to a human being across the table. We just never would say it, and we take that , oh, yeah. This is normal. , it's normal that we tell ourselves these things. But if we can just we don't even recognize that voice in our heads a lot of times, right? So if we can recognize it and say, wait, wait, wait, that would be what a fixed mindset voice would tell me. Let's try out the new growth mindset voice. So what can I tell myself about, well, that didn't go over really well? I probably should read up on that before I open my mouth next time. I think I'll go home and work on that right now. Would be a better way to approach something that. Mhmm. That's good. Someone said in a meeting recently, well, since I can't be a developer, I could never learn c sharp. I'm going to go and I was it it hit me a a Rock. I'm , you may not want to be a developer. You may not need to be a developer, but don't say you can't be. Anybody can be. It's just not and that's not that's not the pinnacle of anything, but if you want to be anything, you can be. Whatever the skill set is, apply effort over time. But when I heard them use those words about themselves, it really was , oh, don't say that. you could do it if you wanted to, but you don't need to and you may not want to. The interesting thing about mindsets is they're just beliefs. We can all change our mind. You just have to realize it. And the cool thing about the work that they did on this showed that just having the awareness of growth versus fixed mindsets and focusing on trying to identify that in your life, just that awareness begins moving you toward a growth mindset. So it's not an insurmountable hurdle. Again, the fixed mindset would be , oh, well, I don't have the ability to deal with a fixed mindset. That would no. You do. You really do. And and the people that you see that might be achieving things that you haven't achieved yet, maybe it's the perspective. Maybe it's the mindset. So I would encourage people to try it on and look for a small part of your life. Right? What's the thing that's holding you back? Look for one little area and just try it out. Nobody has to be watching or seeing what you're doing. Give it a shot and see what happens. As clearly as I can see and know that the switch that turned my mindset off in second grade, I know that exact moment when to flip back on. And that was in college. I was sitting outside of a classroom. I got in there early, and I noticed that they had an award in the business college for the top student in every discipline for the year. And I thought, that was luckily freshman year at time. I thought, , wonder if I could get that. I wonder if I just applied myself, really worked hard. I wonder , that was so far out of my mindset until that moment. But I remember literally looking outside that that case and thinking, I wonder if I could get that. And then just I changed that. That moment changed. I went back to my dorm room, started working through how can I take every single computer information class they offer, which some of them were only offered one semester every two years? So you had to line up your schedule to be, and had prerequisites. So you had make sure you had everything lined up. I don't know something in that moment just flipped back on and I can really, I can still see standing there. That's cool. One of the other things that I loved that you said from the growth mindset is effort is the path to mastery, which kind of goes back to the formula you shared with years ago, the effort formula. I constantly am referring back to that. These are just good things to keep in mind. You're not a master because you haven't put enough effort into it yet, but you can become a master at whatever you put your effort towards. And the good news is efforts all in your hands. Right? Yeah. No one can take it away from you. Right. It's interesting because the science of mastery tells us that ten thousand hours of applied practice with focus over time will lead you into a position of mastery of whatever that particular subject or topic or area is. And so if you think about it as humans, a lot of times we just disengage our brain click after we're done doing the things that are all lined up that someone has for us to do, a to do list, all the demands that life throws at us. We just click off our minds, and we inadvertently become masters at our remote controls on our TVs or at our social media, or games, or at our games, or at something that is a distraction. So we're mastering the art of distraction. And so we're reinforcing these neural pathways in our brain that now that's the fastest and easiest thing we go to. And that distraction is then actually further preventing us from effort because we can't sustain the focus. Yeah. I guess I never really would have considered distraction a mass something you can master, but you're right. It is. By Our whole society has mastered distraction. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You think of that as a vacuum, it's not. It's actually something that you've learned how to do well. Yeah. That's pretty profound. Was that in the book? No. You should write a book. I just made that up right there. I mean, that is Well, don't no. No. Don't write a book. You have enough other things to do. I'm gonna go become a master in book writing. I'll be right back. You could. I think I could if I wanted to. I know you could. You actually could do that without Did she write some help write some of the manuals? Yeah. She writes a lot. I don't know. That is what I went to school for, the writing and the talking and the those things. Writing and the talking. What what a way to, , simplify your major. what? The I write and talk. We can all simplify what we do. We can make it sound complicated, and we can make it sound simple. I went to I have a a degree in pushing key keys on a keyboard. Yeah. Exactly. I liked one of her stories in the book where she talked about she's a big fan of Cezanne, the, impressionist artist. And she got to go to an exhibit of his very earliest works. And so she was very interested to see, , this guy really set the tone for the standard for what is modern art. I mean, talk about a master. Talk about someone to look up to that no doubt many people have looked at his work in a museum and said, I'm no good at art. I can't paint. Right? So she went to go see what this looked . And she was shocked at how bad some of the art was because he hadn't found his style or his voice. He hadn't figured out the thing that made him tick. He had not mastered painting. He was only two hundred hours in at that point. Right. Right. So Cezanne wasn't Cezanne. , we've created this , oh, this persona of this person, but really this persona was the pinnacle of years and years of hard work and of failing and of creating things that nobody would hang on their wall before he got to that point. And then he got to operate out of that place of mastery, which would have been a really incredible and exciting place to be. But I guarantee it didn't mean he didn't still put out a bad canvas every now and then or have to completely wash over the canvas he'd done the day before and start over. You just have to get back in it. You have to get up the next day and say, well, today can't be worse than that, so let's give it a shot. Yep. And I think that's a big piece of what we just need everybody in the community to understand because there's by them limiting themselves, they're limiting all of us. Right. They they look at the situation, they look at you, they look at the leadership team here and they think, wow, those guys, they really they're something special, but it's just effort. how many hours have you just put into learning about some new technology or idea in reading? Yeah. And I think about all the things that could be, , all the guides to how to set up a data entry team, all the guides of how to do group that could be done by anybody. , right? Really, you don't have to be a developer. You don't have to have access to this building. You don't have to it's out there for anybody. All those things where we all suffer because if people are holding themselves back, they're not just, , impacting themselves, they're impacting the whole community. Imagine if we looked at babies and said, oh my gosh, those babies are so stupid. They don't know how to talk. They don't know how walk. They keep bumping into things. Feed themselves. Wearing a Ridiculous. Instead of , oh, they're so cute. Look how hard they're trying. Oh, that one said dada. How adorable. , we don't make fun of babies for not being born with it. And yet somewhere, we make this mental transition that we weren't born with it. Well, I just I to think about that. Where does that happen? Where does that happen? We don't make fun of babies. High school. Right? I think high school is when all the negativity And, , some people have maybe had things happen in their lives where they didn't have the support or someone they might have actually heard that you're stupid. Yeah. I mean, what a terrible thing to tell anybody. Right. And a growth mindset doesn't mean that it's painless to fail. Right? Or that effort is, , easy or feels great. It's hard. It is hard. Daily. Yeah. But without that effort, we get to be really, really great at distraction. And that's it. So science tells us we're not born smart or born dumb. We're born with a multitude of options, and the ones we exercise regularly are the ones we get better at. So our brain is a muscle, so we can change it. We are in control of our potential far more than we ever used to realize. And if that's what science is telling us, that we can form these neural connections and these neural pathways, then we have a responsibility to see what that means. And far better to have that inside our own lives than just to kind of wonder, gosh, wonder what I could have done if I'd cared, if I'd applied myself. I have a John Wooden quote here that I shared, and I really it. He said, you have to apply yourself each day to becoming a little better. By applying yourself to the task of becoming a little better each and every day over a period of time, you will become a lot better. And I really think that if anybody would know that, it's probably that guy. Yep. Well, we just wanted to have a little bit different podcast this It was a little where we share some of the stuff that we talk about internally. We have a staff meeting every two weeks. We try to have a leadership lesson for each and but this one, I think, was one of the pinnacle ones that it's really at the core of what we do. It is at the core of what we do, and that's been really spinning around for me in particular. I'm , I have learned so much from this. I really wanna share it. So doesn't mean I've got it all figured out. I still have a lot a lot of little dark corners of fixed mindset, but I know they're there, and I will work on them. Thanks for joining us for another podcast, and we look forward to sharing with you again soon. Do a church that loves the idea of using Rock but hasn't taken that leap yet? With managed hosting, churches of any size can get access to Rock's amazing technology, hassle free. With just one click, Rock's managed hosting removes the roadblocks that might stop a church from switching to Rock by making the process simple. Churches get the ease of a SaaS church management system without losing any of Rock's powerful features. Are you ready to take the next step or share with another local church? Visit rockrms.com/hosting today.