Podcast Episode 176: Episode 149: Rock is not the Product it is the Community

Description

Today join Jon Edmiston, Emily Forman and Nick Airdo as they take a look at what is new: v15 is in Alpha and testers are off and running, lots of new features coming and a few "phantom features", ways to leverage RX23 to get a jump start on your digital ministry and Leadership Gravity what is it and how do you get it? Show Notes: Gold Circle awards submissions: https://www.rockrms.com/gold-circle-awards?Year=2023RX23 Registration: https://rx.rockrms.com/rxregister/rx2023Give and Take by Adam Grant: https://adamgrant.net/book/give-and-take/Don’t forget to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcasts.Rock PartnersWe are thankful for our Rock Partners and their support of the Rock Community. Visit their websites through the link above to learn how they can help your ministry and confirm that those you work with are as invested in the success of Rock as you are!

Transcribed Content

This episode of Rockcast is brought to you by Rock partner Triumph Tech, a full service specialist partner. Rock partners provide crucial support for Spark Development Network and important services for the Rock community. Connect with Triumph Tech today at rockrms.com/partners. Welcome to this episode of Rockcast. This is the podcast at the intersection of technology and community all about ROCCRMS. I'm Emily Forman. I have Jon Edmiston and Nick Airdo here with me today, and we are going to talk about Rock. Nick, tell us what's the latest. The latest is we just went alpha on version 15, and apparently most of our alpha testers were off on Good Friday and the Monday after Easter, and they all came in yesterday and the day before, and today, and they're furiously testing. So forgive me if I'm a little scattered. There's a lot of activity happening and it's all good. That's great. So we got a bunch of alpha testers firing in all cylinders. In version 15, well, let me back up. There's also an unpublished version 14.3. So what happened was all of the fixes that we were putting in the 14.3, there may never be a version 14.3, but all those fixes are in version 15. And that's the typical pattern. It is. That's normal. Sometimes we release multiple versions at the same time, but for this one, we don't feel there's a compelling need for a 14.3 yet. So the combined total of features and fixes and improvements is, well, there's 20 new things that were across both of those. Actually zero in version 14.3. All the things that were added, all 20 of those are in version 15. Then there's some improvements, total of 39 in 14.323 in version 15. Okay. I know you shouldn't do numbers on a audio podcast, but here we go. And then for fixes, bug fixes, there were a lot of bug fixes that we had piled up into 14.3, 20 five of those, and then 15 are in the 15 branch that were a little more risky. We tend to not put risky fixes into the hot fixes, the point releases. So a total of 44 there. But 15 has several huge new features. It's, I want to say There's a lot of micro additions, small additions, but then there's some major additions. Absolutely. It's a huge release. So the fact that it came fairly quickly in terms of our usual cadence shouldn't, , don't take anything from that. It's actually a really big release. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it it feels we've been working on some of those features for a long time in version 15, probably because we were doing that during version 14. Yeah. So yeah, for sure, it's a big release. And I think we touched on some of those last time, group sign up or sign ups feature and reminders feature. There's some new avatar stuff. Yeah, I wouldn't even call that major releases. It's more of a little polish of making pictures of people a bit more modern. Yeah. But we also did just now create a version 16 branch. So everything that was now going into develop is basically version 16. So John probably wants to give a little hint about it. Yeah, and I'd say too, reason why 15 seems some of the features, it seems we've been working on a long time is because we have, And I would think in terms of product, 15 now is old news. We've been done for a few months. People still don't have that yet. So it's a little bit of a time shift. So 16 is what we feel is what Rock is and even some of those features that we're actually working on internally and using. So it's always we're one version, major version ahead. So working on 16 features right now. So a lot of that is around content library and making sure that we can make it easy for churches to share content amongst themselves in a way that's friction free. Because really content is king. It's it's always been the the motto of the Internet. But if we're honest, as a big C church, we don't really have a lot of content. There are a few outliers that do, but why don't we share the content that we do have and magnify that? So not only do churches get this content, but we actually, maybe I'm a church who has a lot of content, but it's getting some eyeballs, obviously, on our own site, but we could magnify that by a hundredfold if we just share that content. We're maximizing the impact of the content that the big C church does have while also giving content to a lot of churches that maybe don't have the resources to do that. Really excited about this feature. Think it could really change a lot in terms of church websites and digital strategy. Lots of other features though that we're working on around that. That's one that we're kind of focusing on right now. There's also some extensions onto personalization. I think the segments in version 14 were great, but it does take some clicks to get this all set up. And a lot of times you just need to see the best practice, and more and more we want the best practice to keep rolling out in the core releases. And so we're adding some really cool new features in terms of personalization in version 16. Things that you could do today actually, but it would take quite a bit of configuration. We can actually make it really easy in the next release. So I know I'm missing a huge feature that's in 16 that I know people are waiting for. I just cannot. It's pretty exciting the pace that we're rolling out with large features right now. And I just wanna say, churches, don't get behind on the releases. Right? , don't hold yourself back. There's so much good that's coming and that's possible. So make sure to stay up to date with that. And a huge thank you to our testers group. They've been so active. And yes, we did drop a release on them for testing right before Easter. What, , we understand the lull Yeah. That's just the the pace we needed to run at. But a huge thank you to the testers for keeping up with the pace that we're developing at. And And surprisingly, there were a couple people who were testing over the Seriously? I was , well, that's interesting. Didn't expect I would say I expected zero participation because there's a lot of stuff, but to see a few people actually doing some stuff, I was , that's dedication. The other feature I just remembered was communications. We're gonna make the communication wizard much better. Those are all very exciting because they're also helping take features that are currently available now and make them much more accessible. So easier for your staff, less training in some cases about the details of how to do things and some of the best practices built right in. What a really great opportunity to start maximizing the use of what you're doing inside Rock. Yeah. And there's some phantom features I would say per n 15 that we will be rolling out in future dot releases. So if we're not done with 15 yet, there's still some some good stuff in there. So don't forget to stay tuned to the next podcast. Let me just remind you to subscribe to our podcast wherever you listen to this, so you don't miss those kinds of announcements when they come out. Yeah, and I would say too, a lot of those announcements will be at the conference. So get at the conference. Definitely get to A lot product announcements at the conference and a lot of seeing those features actually in use at the conference. We're really excited about that. Yeah, that's going to be fun. Yeah. Let me just sneak a little conference promo in right here while we're talking about it. The hotel that the conference is at is actually 94% booked right Oh, As far as available rooms. So now it's not the only hotel in the area, but we all know you kinda wanna stay where you It is. Where you are, right? So You get to walk across the street. Yeah. It's I mean, it's just not the same. You can just literally go up to your room Yes. Refresh and upgrade, come right back to Yes. Especially in July. But don't don't if it is full by the time you register in a week or two, still come. There's no another hotel. Very close. So The preference go get it. Is in the hotel where the conference is. Don't delay any longer or you might find yourself in the unfortunate position of only having other options. But it's coming. There is also a really incredible new to Rock track that we're building out with more attention this year. So if you're talking to churches that are considering Rock, and there are quite a few out there right now, Explain to them that you really can't just evaluate a platform on a feature by feature basis, although Rock really shines in that evaluation. But to really understand Rock, you just have to see the community in action. And there's no better way than at the conference. So a church that's evaluating Rock or is starting to make plans to move, coming to that conference for the first time and joining that new to Rock track is gonna be an invaluable part of their understanding of Rock and making those connections that really make the Rock experience shine and add so much value to it. So if you happen to be talking with other churches that are looking at Rock or starting to make a move, please invite them to the conference and encourage them to attend that new to Rock track. It's a huge multiplier. Well, would just say that Rock is not the product. Yes. It's the community, and if you're not coming to the conference, you're missing the best part of Right. And then you're just gonna have to go reinvent all the wheels that other people have been inventing over time when you could leverage that and start doing new and incredible things specific to your ministry because there's so much sharing happening at this event. So that's RX. That's RX. Can I give one more little RX Yeah? Moment? Sure. We started last year with the Gold Circle Awards, and that's a community judged, community based award that's given out in several different categories for things that churches are building in Rock. So things that have high ministry impact that are super innovative, that are elegantly designed. There are lots of awards to go around in multiple categories, but the only thing missing is your submission. So we know you've been building things in Rock. We know you're doing some incredible work there. Make sure that you go sign up for the Gold Circle Awards and submit the projects you've been working on. You can link to that directly from our conference page. So go to to the conference page and directly link to those Gold Circle Awards. I believe submissions are due in three to four weeks from the recording of this podcast. So don't delay. Get those submissions in. We want a nice full slate of things, and it's gonna be a very exciting time to recognize the hard work of the community in supporting ministry with some pretty cool technology solutions. That's good stuff. Yes. Now we've been kinda keeping our our ear to the industry trends a little bit too, John. The church management systems are always moving. Right? So there are industry trends popping up here and there. Who's getting involved? Who's removing themselves from involvement? What's all driving some of the industry trends right now? What what have you heard recently about one of the church management system players? Well, always stay up to speed on what's going on. Even back before we even started Rock, we were part of the church management space in terms of other products that we had written code for and turned into products. So just understanding and seeing it, when you're in a space, always want to know what's going on and what's the motivators. So I think the big news is recently this year, Blackbaud exited the church space, which is interesting and not interesting, guess. They typically haven't been in the space until about two years ago, then they got into the space and then they left. I think the more interesting thing is people's reactions to that in terms of, some people kind of see the church management space as being a highly lucrative space. And I would say it's definitely not. Church management, the pure church management space is actually just a lot of hard work and a lot of features for not a lot of money. But what drives people to church management, what makes it interesting, and why we saw the entrance of things ministry brands and who bought up a lot of the church management systems, is if you own the church management system, you control the fire hose of giving in a lot of ways. You basically have someone in a wrist lock. You can kind of pull and push them where you want them to in that lock, and that's where the money is. Yeah. By giving, you mean the congregation, the church The tithe. Yeah. The tithe. So getting some small amounts of basis points on tithes is huge. Some of them are not taking small amounts of basis points, it's quite a few basis points. So taking that percentage, and even there's just a lot of tricks in that trade in terms of ACH giving, that typically is a transaction fee that's very low, but some are taking percentages, and that's a lot. So when we talk about church management, don't know too many people who really want to be in that space, except it is the wrist lock for controlling the fire hose of the tithe money. And that's where I think Spark is very unique, is that we've never wanted to touch the donation. We feel that's the third rail, don't touch it. That's a sacred thing that when you bring your money to the storehouse that someone shouldn't be taking a piece of it. Now, are costs associated with credit card processing. Absolutely. So Visa and Mastercard need to get their pound of flesh. And there's not much you can do about that. There's nothing you can do about that. And there are some transactions, some costs above that in terms of customer service and value added digital requirements on top of that. get it, not saying don't make some money. And not everybody who's in giving is a racketeer in that case. But it's just, you have to know what are you paying for and are you comfortable with that? Now, people have higher fees and some people are fine with that because , why get more value? Provide these other services. So we're not here to judge. We're just here to say, hey, just know the industry, know what you're getting for, know what you're paying. If you feel you're getting the value out of that bill, great. That's what capitalism is. Are you getting the value? It's a mutual relationship. Win win. Yeah. Just know. But when you hear these news bits out there about people coming in or coming out, just know that the incentives are not often what you would assume. Oh, I want to come in because we feel there's great value in managing groups. Yeah, it's really not. There's a lot of features and I think you have to come into that space with passion, not monetary needs. And I think again, that's where Spark's unique. We've never gone into the donations. As a nonprofit, we can't be sold. I mean, if we did sell, you technically can sell your nonprofit, but the money has to be donated to another nonprofit. So you can't cash out of a nonprofit. And I think from the very beginning, that model was something where we were very interested in because we didn't want to be tempted in those ways. It removes any incentives on the front that seems to be driving many other entrances and exits from the market. Right. And, that's the story behind those stories. And you can always trust yourself maybe today. Right. It's easier to trust yourself today than it is tomorrow. Right. Because when things get rough and things get stressful and things get big and thing, then it's , oh, well, the stress can maybe tempt you, but when you've already basically handcuffed the organization in a certain way, it actually puts very good protections. And the other protection is it's just open source. Say Spark did do something that was completely nefarious and unliked by everybody, well, another nonprofit can step in and basically start where we left off. And when you see in GitHub our daily commits, every day the developers are pushing everything and we constantly , Hey, push that. If your laptop goes kaput, we want it in GitHub. And so we do it for technical reasons, but we also do it for integrity to say, someone can start tomorrow where we left off today. And that's again, putting more power into the hands of the big C church to say, well, obviously we're investing in this and we want to be protected. And there's just so many levels of protection. Even our board has so many levels of protection. In the last few years, we've actually expanded the size of the board to make sure that the church has more say in how Spark runs. And the way we're structured, I think, was the proof that some churches needed to move to Rock, some big churches who I won't name, with the huge developers and contractor staffs are now on Rock because they understand exactly what you just said. If something ever went wrong, they could just take it. Yeah. And those are all put in place again to ensure that the money that the church invested into this was respected and protected. And that's why our giving tools are built to be open as well. So there isn't just one option or limited set of options. It's really something that anyone can build that integration and it's up to each church to do that individual research and determine the value for services. Yeah. As someone who's been in the industry, I wish there was more competition. I think churches only win when there's more competition. It gives ideas more room to be diverse and grow, but it also gives the church more protection in terms of, well, all my eggs aren't in a couple baskets. So when I see fewer and fewer church management systems, it's actually kind of a bummer because there's not that diversity of thought and ideas and protection. True, but we are still trying to keep up with your brain and all the ideas you have. Well, it's a community, honestly. It is. It's the power of the community. Absolutely. That is true. You've been contacted by people who are giving you ideas from the community. Well, just seeing it on a daily basis, the idea I see every idea, read every idea, 99% of them are really good. It's , well, that's not a bad idea. I'm not sure when that could get done because we could spend all, 100% of our development time, actually 200% of our development time just working on these other ideas. And so you have to keep, from a product perspective, you have to keep your foot on the accelerator of innovation that isn't just polishing, polishing, polishing, and at the same time putting some time to obviously polishing too. I mean, there's an idea that we're going to go over later this afternoon that came in yesterday. Was so cool. It's just , yeah, that has to be. How could that not be? And it's not a huge investment. We do that a couple times a month. It's just , absolutely go do this. We're not even gonna wait for votes to come in. This is obviously something that has to be in there. And that's even more evidence that Spark and Rock are a passion project, right? Oh, 100%. The model says funding low, pace high, go. And and the innovations in the mix of what the core team is doing and building roadmap wise and what churches need immediately. And there's no way any of that could happen if it wasn't all happening together in community. Yeah, and , a good analogy to that kind of came up the other day. I was talking with someone in the community and they expressed , Well, I'm just so glad you guys are here to help with these types of things. And I'm , what? We're all fighting the same spiritual war. every church is fighting the same spiritual war and we're all should be locked arms. We, as Spark, are not a church, but we are what I would call advanced weapons creation if we're fighting the spiritual war. I was listening to a podcast just the other day and it was about how the US military uses advanced technologies and we don't even know what some of them are. They had a soldier on who was basically saying, Yeah, well, get the weapons. We'd go use them in these conflicts, and then we would give the feedback right back to the weapons manufacturers to make them even better. And I was , Well, that's kind of what we're doing too. It's , we're not just making the weapons and saying, Here it is, it's great. We throw it out to the community. They tell us what works, what doesn't work, what needs to be polished. And we talk about that in our product meetings all the time too. Well, this is our MVP, just get that out, let's see how it's used, and then we'll see if we want to add A or B features. When some of those requests come back in, a lot of times it's , yeah, we thought of that, but we weren't sure how it was initially going to be used. And we didn't want to sit on it for two years, making it what we believe to be perfect only to get it out and have people go, that's not perfect. Let's just get it out there and get some advanced recon on how that works. So I would just think of Spark as an advanced weapons manufacturer for the spiritual battle. Right. Absolutely. And you guys are on the front lines out there fighting the battles and we just wanna hear what's working, what's not working so that we can make better tools, weapons, whatever. But I do feel what we are in right now, especially is a spiritual battle and it's getting more and more present and more and more violent from a spiritual perspective. If you don't feel the tremors from a spiritual perspective, I think maybe watch the news a little bit more because it's every day you're , Oh wow. Oh wow. And I think it's becoming more and more clear where God's moving, but also where evil is moving. And it just makes me more and more passionate about getting these tools out to you guys to fight the battles. So we at Spark don't feel we're separated from the church. Mean, we feel we're in the trenches. Think we spend so much time every day talking with churches and working and helping and fixing and improving. I just got off a call. That's why I was a little bit late with a church. Yep. And many of us came directly out of working for churches, and so that extension still sits with us. It's at the heart of what we do. And it's a great time to remind everyone too, the Spark ecosystem for Rock is made up of the core team, the churches, you who are using the product and the vendors that support Rock in the development as well. So those year round sponsors and partners that are available to see on the Rock website are also invested in helping move this forward. And Rock can only go forward with innovation and maintain what's already been built by the contributions of everyone involved. And those contributions are sometimes financial. They are sometimes ideas. They are a lot of times collaboration. There's just a lot that has to happen of all of us together. So as you're making your choices on who you'll support inside the Rock ecosystem, keep an eye on those pages because the organizations that are also equally passionate about and invested in the future of Rock are involved as financial sponsors and partners year round. Yeah. I think it's the hard part of the industry, which it's hard to call what we do in industry, but I suppose in a sense it is, because some people see it that way. When you work with some people, all of a sudden you realize it's really a monetization is more the passion in some. And it's somewhat disheartening, I think, you realize that everybody needs to make a living, everybody needs to, - Absolutely. And profit's not bad, but if that's your first motivation, it really, you can tell pretty soon. So it's , Oh, well, as soon as everything comes at it from a profit motive from the other side. And it's , Okay, well, that's not the way it needs to be or should be. It doesn't have to be. If you've ever studied the concept of reciprocity, generosity spurs generosity and makes so many things better. And so you can absolutely make the living that you need to make and do what you need to do when you're engaged generously with another generous organization or ecosystem. Yeah. In God's economy, the currency is generosity. That's a great point. I love how succinctly you said that. And the more you bend that, the more it magnifies itself. you can't out give God. Every pastor will tell you that. It's so true. And I think even in the Rock community, you see that. I think the sponsors and partners who continually give and give and give, they get. I have good relationships with a lot of these partners and I just love the fact that they just, sometimes generosity, it's so impactful. It's , how, why, why do you do And they're , to stop, this is my joy to do this. It's so humbling to be a proverb. Then you watch God come around the back door and bless them to pieces and you're , yes. There's a proverb for that, eleven twenty And there are principles and foundations around it. If you are interested in learning more about that kind of thing, I have a dog eared copy of Adam Grant's Give and Take. It's a great book. It's super interesting. There's a lot of studies and research behind it. So, if that's something you're interested in, I would definitely check that book out. And it's nothing wrong to interrogate somebody. So how are you giving back? Okay, well, how are you giving back even more? I think the more that the community helps with that and inspires that and provides accountability to that. Yes. It's , okay, so that's cool, but what else are you doing? Because I think if you ask some, there's some in the community who don't tell you how many other things they do. I'd say For good reasons. Yeah. I would say go to the conference too. People who, when you see sponsors sponsoring things the drink station or other things, just realize a lot of the people who are putting their names on those things, it's not really about the name. Right. Right. They're not, for the amount they paid to what they get, it's really, to them, they're , It's not about that. I really don't care. I love what you guys do and I wanna be a part of it. You can see a lot of those there. And there's a couple of sponsors who don't necessarily do it in that way, but they do it in other ways. And just in some ways it's really inspiring, and then sometimes it's somewhat a little depressing sometimes. Sure. I mean, we do see in a space ours at some point, vendors in the types of industries that work in parallel to what we're doing here will take a look and say, oh, it looks there's a good community over there. I wonder what I can get out of it. And some say, I wonder what I can also give to it to make it better. And that's what we've been talking about. But there are plenty of organizations that pop in and go, oh, this looks a great pool to play in. I'm sure it's lucrative. So make sure you're doing your research and understanding, , is this someone who's engaged in the reciprocity of the Rock community? Or is this a vendor that's just really in it for themselves? So as we talk about spiritual battles, and hopefully you guys kind of see it that way and are sensing that too, I think it's important that we look at what is our capabilities as soldiers in this battle. And I think a lot of people in the community are probably experienced soldiers, are feeling it, feel they're making an impact, But also in every community, there's going be some who just don't feel that way. They just don't feel they're making a difference. And sometimes we can live in that space and just be , well, there's a lot of reasons why. And a lot of it is we're not given the opportunities. And I can really relate to that because when I came from the corporate world, wasn't Some people come from the corporate world and they're treated , Oh, they know everything. That wasn't my experience. It was more , Okay, I don't really care, go fix my computer. And I think that was good because again, my story is different and I think God was working on me and I needed to hear that and I needed to feel that. I needed to get realigned with pride and ego on that. But how do you move out of that space? How do you get to be that trusted person? And I think, I have this kind of this mentality of leadership is not something that's given, it's earned. And that as you make progress, you create gravity and gravity attracts other opportunities. And so it's a concept I've been playing with for a while. Call it leadership gravity. Some people just, again, they make me a leader and then I'll show you what I can do. No, that doesn't work. Build success, build some wins, and opportunities will just start coming to you. As those opportunities come to you and you prove yourself, your mask gets bigger. When your mask gets bigger, what does it create? Creates more gravity. Yes. To a certain point, you're , Dude, just stop. I'm done. Your gravity will bring opportunities that you're not ready for. And so you have to be careful about that too. But it's creating that initial set of gravity that is important. And again, it's not about self. It's about listening within the organization, trying to figure out what does the senior leadership of this organization need. So it's not my project that will be done. It's what is their project that needs to be done. And so don't go try to find the little brilliant inspirational thing that you think needs to be done. You really have to listen with humility to what needs to be done. And so you might say, well, I don't have a seat at the table. Well, yeah, of course we don't. I didn't either, but I do have a seat at the staff meeting. If you keep your ears open, if you listen, you will hear what people are needing. And it may not be that you're feeling the need necessarily of the senior pastor at first. Maybe the idea comes in that staff meeting, but maybe it doesn't. But there's probably someone in your groups, your pastor over groups or your pastor over assimilation, whatever, wherever you can have access, figure out what they need to have done and then start using the skills and the knowledge that you have to do that. Now you might say, Well, I don't know if I have those skills and knowledge. Well, that's where you do have to focus on self. So when you're picking your project, it's not about self, but when you focus on what needs to be done, it is about self. You need to figure out how to do that. Now you might say, Well, I don't know if I can. Well, trust me, with effort you can, And it's gonna take effort to build that mass that starts to build gravity. And what I would recommend is listen, try to get the idea, don't commit. you don't have to commit. So what I to do is listen, get the idea, go, And then I'll just go back to my desk or evenings and try to figure it out. Most of the time you'll find that you'll figure it out and maybe you'll need to get some help from the community and they'll help you with this, and that's great. But if for some reason it doesn't work out, your idea doesn't work out, which I don't think is going be very often, just remember you didn't make a commitment. You're kind of Homer Simpson, you just kind of fade back into the hedges, never happened, And you go find a different one. But again, that's going be really rare. And don't fade into the hedges quickly. give it your all. If you didn't shed a few tears, literally, you didn't work hard enough. I have some experiences in my life and some stories I could tell that I literally was pulling my hair out. I was done. I was beating my head against the desk, and then it broke through and I got it. And it just told me and showed me that you can do a lot of things that you don't think you're capable of. So as we fight these spiritual battles, if you want to get more involved and you don't feel you can, or you're not feeling you're giving a seat at the table, just realize that's common. Most people don't get a seat at the table, they have to earn that seat, they have to build the seat, they have to go manufacture the chair that they'll sit in at the table. And you have to first create mass, which means you have to have some success, You can do that. It's going to take some extra work, but try to find a project that someone else needs that's important to the mission of the Church. Fulfill that mission. That person, trust me. You have to go pat yourself on the back. It's going to happen. don't praise yourself, let them praise you. Let them show what you've done. And I think if you do that enough, you're going to create mass which are going to create so much gravity. You're going to have to be strategic in what you pick in the future. So hopefully that's helpful. I do hear it very commonly, I don't have this opportunity. It's , okay, we'll go build the opportunity. Go show them what you can do. If you're waiting for them to come say, open up all the opportunities for you and the bright light shine on you, that's not gonna happen. And honestly, you'll fail because you haven't built up the skillset you need to do that. That's great. And if you're in the position of wanting to do that and haven't started yet, consider a couple of things. The people that you hang around with, are they waiters or are they workers? Because you will become, just our mothers told us all, more the people that you're surrounding yourself with. So if you want to start to be that way, create that community, tap into others in the Rock community who are also looking to grow and create the accountability and just the community around that growth mindset, that will really help propel you. And then just create some personal disciplines around, if that's the thing I wanna do, how am I gonna carve out the time that I have some dedicated space that I make it happen and someone else can't make that happen for you? Yeah. And I think we were just recently on this podcast talking about roll out new versions of Rock, get those features out there. A lot of churches are doing a great job at that. I do occasionally meet some churches , Well, that's a lot of work to roll out a new version of Rock and test it and train. It's , yeah. Yeah. Sounds work. Yep, sure does. But you're keeping those advanced weapons from being used in the battle. Get those out there as fast as possible. That might be the mass that you need to create that will create the gravity. There's so many times I'm talking to a person who's working at a church on Rock and they're , Oh, I'd love to be able to do that. I'm , Yeah, that exists. That's in version 13. They're , Really? I'm , Yeah, you're still in version 12. Why? Why is that? I'm , Well, because your Rock team isn't updating. Oh, well, why don't you do that? Well, it is work. Is. I want to say, yeah, it is, but yeah, do it. Of course it's work, but you got to get the tools out. Just as we're working really hard to get the tools out into the community, you got to get the tools out to the pastors. It's a logistic supply chain, don't stop. Exactly, was just thinking that. You're that group storming the beach first, setting up the infrastructure, then your staff is right behind you to use it. You want that first. You want that before they come knocking at your door. Yeah. Or if those weapons are sitting in crates in the warehouse, it's , no, get them out to the troops. , let them use it and then give us the feedback to make them better. So we all work better together. And again, many churches are doing this really, really well. And I think if you are that person who says, no, I don't feel I feel I've created the Mass and I have gravity. Okay, well, that's great. Keep doing what you're doing, but also maybe find some people who haven't created their mass yet and help encourage them and help them get a win so that they can then create mass that creates gravity. So if you feel , Oh, this doesn't really speak to me, find the person that it's not speaking to in your life help them with the same concept. Mhmm. That's super inspirational concept, John. Thanks for sharing that. And thank you all for listening and tuning in to Rockcast. We appreciate your listening ears. We appreciate the feedback that you give us about our content here and and everything that you're doing to help out in the Rock community. Help others find and discover this podcast as well. Share it. Subscribe to it. We wanna continue to provide a great content that will benefit your Rock experience. Thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time. Do a church that loves the idea of using Rock but hasn't taken that leap yet? With managed hosting, churches of any size can get access to Rock's amazing technology, hassle free. With just one click, Rock's managed hosting removes the roadblocks that might stop a church from switching to Rock by making the process simple. Churches get the ease of a SaaS church management system without losing any of Rock's powerful features. Are you ready to take the next step or share with another local church? Visit rockrms.com/hosting today.