Podcast Episode 185: Episode 158: Special Edition with Jonathan Anderson

Description

Tune into this episode of Rockcast features Jonathan Anderson, of the Ark Church, the newest inductee into the RockRMS Rockstar Hall of Fame. Joined by Emily Forman and Lorrie Yoakum, they explore Jonathan's journey as an early Rock adopter, sharing how it empowered them as adept problem solvers for their church community. Tune in for tech insights and faith-driven solutions! Show Notes:Jonathan’s Church: https://ark.info/Jonathan’s Induction into the Hall of Fame min.1:44:35 https://community.rockrms.com/subscriptions/rx23/state-of-rockRock chat: https://community.rockrms.com/chatBeta Testing: https://community.rockrms.com/get-involved/role/alpha-beta-testers Rock Community Recipes: https://community.rockrms.com/recipesRock Lobster: https://realchip.rocks/Rock SponsorsWe are thankful for our Rock Sponsors and their support of the Rock Community. Visit their websites through the link above to learn how they can help your ministry and confirm that those you work with are as invested in the success of Rock as you are!

Transcribed Content

This episode of Rockcast is brought to you by Rock partner Triumph Tech, a full service specialist partner. Rock partners provide crucial support for Spark Development Network and important services for the Rock community. Connect with Triumph Tech today at rockrms.com/partners. Welcome to Rockcast, the podcast that explores the intersection of technology, ministry and community with RockRMS. I'm Emily Forman, and with me today is Jonathan Anderson from The Arc Church and, of course, from our team, Laurie Yoakum. Welcome, Jonathan. Thank you. Glad to be here. Well, we're thrilled to have you. And just to set the time as we're recording here now, we're not that far out from just having returned from Rx twenty three, the conference for twenty twenty three Rock Experience. And not to quite give it away yet, but there was a real highlight for you, Jonathan, and that's one of the reasons we wanted to give you a chance to have a little bit of a voice into the community. So let's hold on that for just a minute. Tell us a little bit about your church, the size, your role there and how long you've been in the Rock community. Okay. So from the Ark Church in Conroe, Texas, that's just a little north of Houston. Our church is about 4,000 a weekend. We're growing, looking to officially update that number coming pretty soon. Exciting. God's doing some good things there. I have been at our church since on staff 2017, started volunteering towards the end of twenty thirteen in IT, helping with check-in on the previous platform before Rock, and just got plugged in there. Just a good church, good people. It's a big church, but it feels a small church. People are just golden here. It's just a really good place. After I started, we had just moved over to Rock the year after I came in. I came in as a help desk at first, but being more of just kind of a network and security type person, dabbles in programming and just things that. After they moved to Rock, we didn't have any one that really knew Rock, right? We're first starting out, we had a partner help move us from our previous CMS over to rot. And after that partner was done and we were no longer working with them, we were running into some problems and they asked if I could look at it. And I looked at it and was able to fix some things and recodes and things and just change some things around. And it's just grown from there. That's very exciting. , Jonathan, I feel every time I've spoken with you over the years, which has been quite a few since 2017, it seems you're doing slightly different things. So what over there related to IT or database do you not work on? Maybe that's the easier way to approach it. What do I not? I don't do anything facilities. I'm not working on the air conditioners, I'm not working on the door key fob exit, things that. But basically, if it's network, if it's cloud, if it's a Rock, IT or any of that, I'm pretty much the go to person now. We built up our team at one point to where we had three members and we're back down to, the Lord is helping me. I do have other people that help me in the church, but for the most part, we're down to me having the experience and the knowledge and all the things. That's Well, I will tell you, I'm always very impressed with the things you're learning and teaching yourself, the the ways you're pouring back into the community so that I feel you're one of those people that no pain is wasted. So anything that you've run into and learn something from, you're trying to find ways to improve systems or share that pain with other people. You've always got such a great attitude. And that's always just really impressed me. Yeah, I've just always been a lifelong learner. I don't have degrees or anything that in IT or programming or anything. It was just from a young age, picked it up and I always enjoyed it, I digging into that. I creating things, I solving things and so, networks and programming and all this stuff, which are always fascinating. In Rock community, you have been very active. Tell us a little bit about some of the things that you're involved in. Where would people recognize your name if they weren't here this year at RX? Again, I'm not saying that, you get to say that. So so how is how does our community know you? So I'm pretty active in chat. You won't recognize me by my picture. That's true. It's changed, I will update that. I was recently inducted into the Rockstar Hall of Fame. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. That is so well deserved, Jonathan. Thank you. It was completely unexpected. And I will say that getting added to the Rock team was unexpected. Getting out into the Hall of Fame was unexpected. It's just for me, I'm just living, I'm doing me, I to help, I to build things, I to do things, and if I'm being rewarded for going in the way that I know that I should go, that God has led me, hey, glory be to God, and it's all for him. Yeah, it's it's not it's not my own doing that is not any of this. But we appreciate everything you do for the community, and it was well deserved. Now it's a little fun that the the thing you walk away from, becoming a hall of famer is a Fender guitar, and a lot of our, hall of fame members actually don't play. But I heard a rumor that you may actually play the guitar. I do. I picked it up whenever I was a teenager, about 13, 14, it just kind of played babbled ever since. There was times where I was on different choirs or church bands at different places, not any place anyone would know, but that wasn't my calling. I knew what my calling was when I started volunteering, and so I didn't volunteer for getting on stage and playing guitar. I very much leave me off the stage. I don't need to be up here. Well, we pulled you on the stage this year, but now the question is, are you going to play that guitar? We'll see what comes, and we'll just leave it at that. Just a home. That's okay too. Because we'd love a video. No. We'll we'll see how it goes. I've I've actually got some ideas. , I mean, you got to take advantage of opportunity whenever opportunity presents itself. That's right. You never know what will happen. That's right. Now, I don't want to don't want to cut it short. You've actually been a member of our beta testing team, right, for a long time as well. Yeah, I think I joined the beta testing team probably 2019 just because, I mean, if we're going to be running this thing and getting on the latest versions, I need to know what's coming my way. Right. It's a little self protective, right? Yes, absolutely. That's exactly what it is. I don't want to update without knowing that we're going to be solid. Need to take care and make sure that everyone can do ministry for our children's check-in, our giving, for our adult groups, for everything. And so being able to go through and get inside versions of Alpha and Beta has just helped tremendously. I was on Beta team for a little while, switching over to alpha team. And I actually test through both of them now, even if I don't reply and say, yes, I'm going to do it. Because sometimes I just don't have the time. But even if I know I don't have the time, that doesn't mean that I'm not loading up and keeping the tires off because I have to do that. So Yes. It seems a real win win for everyone involved. If you're involved that early in it, you're gonna have to test it anyway at some point, really, before you roll it out into production. And if you can test at a time where there's still a pivot for the core team to address any issues that may be discovered, which is only possible by having access to a wide variety of instances and data sets, then everybody kind of comes out the winner. Absolutely correct. , in my testing, run into things, , being alpha and beta, I run into things that other alpha and beta testers won't think about. Everybody's going to test something different. Every ministry runs different, and so they use different things, and so what I'm testing, the next person might not be testing and to be able to get in there early, you said, it benefits everyone because if we can find the bugs before it ever gets released, then those other churches that don't have the resources that don't have the people to do that, will benefit from it. So it's very much, let's take care of everybody. We're one big community or, , we're all the church. Yeah. And so we can do this and it's for the church. It's just. Yeah. , I was talking to a church that launched on Rock back in, I think, February of this year. And they were saying, , how do we get ahead and know what's coming before we start even testing it in our sandbox? And I said, oh, I know just the opportunity for you. You would make a great community tester. And they have the team and the bandwidth to do that. And it makes a lot of sense for them. So I think it's a good opportunity for people. And, , it doesn't. When I look at our current testers that we have, I also see a wide range of technical skill sets there. I think maybe there might be a perception that you have to be wired a certain way or in a certain role at your church. But there it does seem to be that there's a lot of value from people that have various levels of technical skill set as well. Absolutely. So, , there are people that are very technical that that will find bugs that other people will not. But as far as running the betas or the alphas, it's actually fairly easy to do. There are some good community recipes. There are plenty of people in the community. There's a lot of documentation up there on how you can get started into doing that. And definitely if a church has the resources or a person has the willingness to just dig in and start on that, they'll find that, at first it takes a little bit, you're learning something new, but after you get used to it, I mean, fifteen, twenty minutes for the most part, you can have a copy of your production data and update it to the new thing and start testing things, running through your workflows, looking at your web pages, seeing what's new, and it's going to benefit everyone. Your organization, you have an inside track, And I said, if you find a bug, you report it, it helps everyone else. It's definitely a great way to get started and learn the deep intricacies of Rock. As you go through it, you're going to learn more. The Rock is so big. I don't think there's probably a single person that knows the entire Rock code base. I think you're right. Know you're right. Yeah, there's too many, , I mean, Nick and John, they might want to know the entire code base, but there's no way a project this big. It's just it's impossible. So. Yep. Yeah. Well, the Rock is used in many different ways at different churches you were just saying, which is why the diversity of testing is so helpful. Can you share with us a little bit about how Rock is being best applied at the Arch Church, the ways that you use it most in the ways it's most helpful to your ministries? I think probably the the single most helpful thing that we got out of Rock was check-in manager, no more paper rosters. That was a big thing whenever we moved over to using check-in manager and doing some of those rosters. It took a little bit to get there. We were on Rock for several years before we started using Check-in Manager. It was later incoming, it wasn't there when we first moved into Rock, but it came pretty quickly after that and it looked great and we wanted to do it, but it just didn't fit how we did things. And so we were actually building another building and adding a lot of rooms. We added another 50,000 square foot about addition onto our building, and this was all youth auditorium and kids rooms. And with the addition of all of these rooms and all the space, we were looking at how we were going to handle check-in. Mean, there needs to be a lot of kiosks, there's going be a lot of rooms with kids and paper. That was what we did before and it worked. But we wanted to do that. We had to make some changes in how we did some things, change the way that we did check-in, change the way that we grouped our children together in rooms. One, we had more rooms, we could be more flexible. We were really running out of space with four children. Matter of fact, we even went to a third service, mostly because of children. We didn't have enough space. And so we went to three services after the building and COVID. We're back to two services now. And I said, we just kind of reconstructed check-in. And that was it was easy after we rolled it out. It was hard, and I'm using hard, it was hard to get someone else to see the vision. I had a vision of what this could do. I had a vision of how it could help us communicating that vision to our children's team was where a lot of challenge came from. And it took a lot of talking and just a lot of seed planning and a lot of going over things and just getting little wins in places. And finally, whenever I finally got them talked into it because they were not on board for the changes that I was going to make at first. They were finally , Okay, Jonathan, we're going to trust you. I hope this is good. No pressure. Yeah, no pressure at all, right? But then in the aftermath, you come back around and it's been going for a while. Then I have the children's workers coming to me saying, I don't know how we did this before. This is so much easier. This makes things so much more just easy to manage and look at and it's a big benefit for them. And so that a big win. I said, not everyone was on board with it at first. It just took time talking, communication, I said, planting seeds, saying, hey, we can do this better. We can do this better. Even when the vision wasn't there on their part, trying to just impart some of that, it can be a real challenge. And this has nothing to do with tech or IT. I think this is just ministry as a whole, you get a different leader or a different person in a different area and they have a vision and trying to get that vision out is, it takes some doing, it takes God coming into the middle of that and inviting God into that. You invite him into your conversation and you invite him into your planning, he can just open some doors and show you some things and give you some wisdom and you can say things a different way and it could be amazing. So check-in manager was a thing that really did it for us. The check-in system and check-in manager made managing children so much easier. , it sounds a really great strategy, which is I think what you were talking about behind all of that small, quick wins. And sometimes you have to cash in a little bit of your relationship capital that you've been building. So make sure you're building it. Right? You have to cash a little bit of it in and know you you've bought just enough grace to land something that's gonna wow them in a quick timeline. And if you can do that, they'll give you a little bit more grace and a little bit more grace. And pretty soon you'll be able to go the distance with each other. But it requires building those relationships and then and not cashing in your relationship capital on things that don't matter. Correct. That's exactly it. For anyone out there that has a vision about something and they see how something can benefit, start small. If you can start small and you, you said, you can get those little wins over here. I think everybody in any church probably has a group of people that you're identified with more. Not that everybody groups up in the clicks, but it happens. All have people that we just are attracted to and that we're working with. Those people will often, if they're in a place where you can help them accomplish something that might be small for right, but it helps them accomplish something and it teaches you how maybe this feature works even better or a better way to do something so you can plan and say, Okay, well, my goal is to get here, but I know it's going to take these three features. Let me work on this feature with this department over here and learn the ins and outs. Can get a small win in a small way, but you learn the foundations. And you said, it builds that trust. It builds that between team members. And then if it's for a department, a children's department or an adult department or a youth department, and they're saying, Hey, we did this and this has really changed it. If you're having a hard time with the rest of the ministry, those children's or adults or youth departments saying that can open some ears up to some leadership and say, Hey, I see that there was a win there. There's another win here. There's another win here. , this this is really working out. What else can it do for us? How can I use it? , and so it'll open those doors for you. , speaking of opening the doors with ministries, it does bring us around to a hot topic in the community right now, which is how do I help propel my overall leadership ministry strategies through the use of digital tools? And so there is maybe a different level of selling, if you will, or of relationship capital or vision casting that has to be done when you're talking about your executive leadership. How have you interacted in those spaces? Can you tell us a little bit about what that's been for you? Growth opportunity. I mean, this working at the church, this is my first real job. I came from family business and had always worked for family business and so, , was coming into an environment this is different for me. I've always been a field worker or a foreman on different sites managing the jobs and just going out and making bids and things that. Coming here and going into IT has been completely different. And when I first came on, of of course, had a department head, , and they did all the discussing and the planning with leadership. A few years ago, he left and it kind of left me to fill that gap. And it's not a gap that has been in my wheelhouse, but the Lord is helping me. This is a growth opportunity. I'm growing out of it. When I started having to interface a little bit more with the leadership, Of course, it took me a while to learn how to talk. I'm a tech person. I want to get in the weeds. They don't want to get in the weeds. Sometimes I think , no, we have to get in the weeds because you need to understand this and just understanding, no, they don't need to understand that. Sometimes you can just talk about, skim over some things, plant some seeds for the future whenever that this will benefit us. We can just bring it up, casual conversation a few times about it, and a lot of times that can help because they're thinking about things and the longer someone has to think about things, a lot of times the more receptive they are to it. I'm to tell someone just something and they take it, No, I don't have to do that. Why would I have to do that? I don't need to do all of this. It's kind of a shock to them at first. We should change this website. This website is not going to work. That's a shock. We need to change a website. Don't need to do all that. It's , okay, well, if we don't talk about changing the website at first, say, Hey, we can improve this. We can improve this. We also need to improve our foundations. We'll get to that later. But whenever you start talking about these little improvements and then you start talking about foundations, it's , well, what do we need to do for a foundation on this? It's , well, we should probably look at starting maybe from scratch or something that and ease into those conversations over time really helps. Just planting the seeds, , gradually, they'll get watered as leadership starts to see, I see this in this department, I see this in this department, it generally will happen over time. A lot of times we want things to happen quick. Right. I don't think anything happens quick. When we first came into Rock, I was moving so quick, I wanted to learn, and so I was building this over here, was building this over here, I was building this over here, just pushing out a bunch of stuff. I mean, was rocking and rolling and moving out new features and new things that. Well, hindsight, guess what? If you build it, you own it. I built a lot of technical things, I had to own a lot of that, I'm new to Rock, so not all of it was done in the best way, but over time that has slowed down. Now we have many pots in the fire all at once that go a lot slower, there's a lot more conversation, but I think the work that comes out of it is definitely more solid. It's refined by time and people. Yeah. Correct. It's refined by time, it's refined by people, . So start small whenever you're building on something, look at your foundational things and it can really benefit in the long run. And maybe the worst time to start talking about all the things you want to do is when you're requesting budget. That might be the worst time to start breaking ice on that, maybe just some other seeded vision conversations that maybe better starting times. Everybody has a budget that's going to renew every year. That's right. , and so you already have that. They're already trying to figure out, okay, where the funds going to come from this, . So that is probably not the time. Yes. Use the current budget you have, get creative and deliver some wins. And they're gonna say, can I see more of that? And you can say, sure. Let's talk about what we require. Right? What let's we're gonna have to reprioritize some things. We're going to have to understand our resourcing, and there's a list of requirements. But if you're already delivering some small wins, they're gonna that conversation, those doors might be open to you in different ways. Absolutely. Well, I you and I had a chance to talk earlier, and you had shared something with me that I thought was so fun, that I thought it needed to be something that we talked about, and it was you have an interesting way of helping your staff learn the culture of your church. And it's really simple, but it was, I mean, was so profound at the same time. What do you do with your new staff? So this was not intended to be a, hey, let me help you learn the culture thing. It was actually intended as a, hey, this would be a funny thing for people to have to do. Okay, so what Lori is speaking about is I shared a little bit yesterday about, or I shared a little bit with her about how whenever I came in to the art, we were a one man shop and it's really just keep your head above water and we needed a lot of work to be done in the IT area And after I came on board, I had a skill set that allowed us to do that and allowed us to move forward. And one of our things was, or one of my pet peeves is passwords. If you're not using a password manager, please use a password manager. just please stop putting the same password on every website that you have or the same five passwords. That's typically about how it works. Someone has five or six passwords, they just kind of scatter them all about. It is just, in today's day and age, I don't know how you manage. I probably have, I think I've got close to seven fifty passwords in my password manager. There's no way to use a password manager. So, one of the things that I did whenever we had new staff come on board, I started making their default password one of our core values. And our core value is a sentence. Now, they go through this the first day with me and then I make them change it. So, it's kind of a little sensitive subject, but the core value is willing to change. Okay, a complete grammatically correct sentence with a capital and spaces and punctuation, because those are special characters and those meet password requirements. When you add words or you add a phrase, this is not a new thing. People have been talking about passphrases for years, taking three or four words and putting them together. So I started making our staff use willing to change and some of the reactions that I got out of that whenever they were first coming on, were , I didn't know you could do that in a password. You can put a space in there, I can put a period in there, and it was , Yes, absolutely. Guess what? This password is more secure than anything that you have, And it's really easy to type. It flows off of your fingers because it's a complete sentence that you're used to typing in all the time. You're not having to do these weird gymnastic stuff with your fingers and almost break them to stretch across the keyboard to get these special characters and things in there, right? And then, oh, I've got to keep this in my head. And so sentences work. You can type out a 20 character sentence faster than you can type in 10 characters of gibberish and the complexity of it is much better. And I've encouraged them, , since now you see you can do a sentence, make this a sentence about yourself, make this a statement, make this a confession, tie it in with your daily walk, right? Take a piece of a scripture or something that and make it unique to you. Don't use, , I've seen password is my password before. That's not it. Type that in some place that says, Hey, this will never get broken. Don't use password is my password. That is horrible. That's a little free tip from Jonathan Anderson right there today. But you can put, Hey, my God is my savior! You're typing that in every day, that's speaking to you and it's keeping you secure. Nice. It was just something that came up in conversation, and I thought it was fascinating, people were , I didn't know I could type that, and I'm , What do you mean you didn't know you could put a sentence in there? Can put whatever you want, it's a password. It doesn't well, I thought it all had no. It doesn't. Well, and willing to change made the humor behind it is so fun. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And so it was the fun part at first. , Okay, your password is willing to change. What? No. Yeah, willing to change. It's , No, I'm serious. You're willing to change. Type it in the 20 times and sign into all the stuff that you got to do. And now let's go change your password. Yeah, that's the right posture to show up with every day, for sure. It is, , we have to be willing to do. Some people get so stuck in, well, this is what I've always done, and so it's what I'm always going to do, and you see this in ministry as well. It's no, this is how we've always done it well, that doesn't mean that's how we have to continue doing it. Technology could probably help us do this. Something else can probably help do that better in a more efficient way. It's not always the case, right? That maybe the way you're doing something is the best way to do it. So it's a case by case basis, but a lot of times people get just no, this is it. And I'm guilty of it too. I'm sure I know I have my ways, we all do, right? But I mean, daily challenge, , God, can I do today? Help me walk with me. I need to change something, let me know. When we finally get that check-in our spirit or whatever, it's , okay, I need to work on it. Make a note, start working on it, be willing to change. That's so good. Well, Jonathan, you've had a nice track record on Rock and you've worked on many of the features and many of the things we have inside that are available in Rock. What are some things you're working on right now that you're most excited about on the Rock front? Oh, wow. So as I said earlier, there's a lot of pots in the fire for different things. Working on some new check-in themes, I'm waiting on version five for the mobile app, working with a partner on building a new website. We've recently launched communications team and we're getting all of those things together and subscription lists. So the list goes on, right? Getting more people into using Rock for volunteer scheduling. , there's just a whole lot. There's parts of Rock that I've never touched and I probably never will touch. Our ministry doesn't use them. Every ministry is different. And that's all right. And there's nothing wrong with that. So there's always something new to learn. The most exciting thing is working on a website and going to get some personalization things added starting small, we're building a foundation. We're not going heavy into personalization right now. We're just , okay, let's get a good foundational website. Our website has changed four times over the last five years, just because little tweaks, little brand changes and rebrandings and things that. After a little while, it's , Okay, it's time to start fresh. And so we're starting fresh. We're laying a firm foundation. We're going to build on that. So I'm really excited in what's going to come out of that website and then the mobile app work to follow. It's going to take a lot of time from me. Especially the mobile application, I mean, it's for all intents and purposes, it's going be me learning another programming language because it is another language. It's familiar, if one language, you can go to another language, it's not a problem, but it is time consuming. It's very time consuming. So I probably have a lot of late nights sitting up here in the office, playing on the phone, playing on the computer and trying to say, Hey, I'll be in rocket chat. Learning all sorts of new things. Well, you're exactly right. The best things take a little bit of time to develop and to simmer as new ideas come. But laying that foundational piece of what needs to be in place without having to say the project has to encompass everything that's possible or nothing. You have to start and get that foundation laid. So that sounds a really wise step in progress. So lately the foundation, we all know the foundation is core to everything. Jesus said, Build your house on the Rock. And he meant Rock RMS? Sokka Rock. Yes. We've been managing two different websites, one internal website or external website for our members for all your signups and things that. But then our other archurch.com website, which is more or less a billboard that is Now we're pulling those things together, gonna have one website out of it. That's going to benefit everybody. It's confusing when you have two websites. It is. For any churches that do run two of them, and you have to have your Rock sign ups and all this stuff over here. Then you have these other things over here. , maybe you're running a WordPress site or something that. I know there's plug ins. I know there's some communication between the two, but it is very limited. It is limiting and it's complex. It's unnecessary complexity in some cases. Absolutely. I mean, yes, you're bringing in not only a whole another WordPress stack, but now the plug in and then the Rock. So yeah, where you could just have one system in Rock, now you have to have two more added to it, the complexity becomes, it'll be very beneficial to have it over there. I'm so glad we're doing it. And then all your data comes into one place and that gives you more power in the future to personalize even more. And it's so cool to realize that you don't have to have just that billboard megaphone marketing site and then a place where people can go and take action. When you combine those, you can have one website that speaks to different audiences and meets their needs differently. And that's just a mind blowing experience. If you've come from if right now someone is in the position of having those two and not seeing how they can come together. When you start realizing how the logic and design can work together to deliver these personalized experiences that move people through the digital ministry strategies of your church. It's just a really, I mean, I'm getting excited about it right now, Jonathan. That's one of the things that drives me. I am so excited about It is. And just some of the things that we can do, I mean, now with, I don't know if it's in '15 or it's coming in '16, but basically, you're an anonymous person, but we still know that you've been here We can still do some customization based on, okay, well, what, I've seen this device before. I know this person has maybe even looked at this page or looked at this page, and so you can kind of get some information. I know people are , Oh, that starts to get on the creep side. It's , Oh, I mean, what? Any tool is just a tool. That's right. Depends on how you use it. And so there's been some features that have come in a row and I've had just some of our staff here , Oh, that's creepy. No way. And it's just , No, think about this from a ministry perspective, just for a second. Turn your creep radar off, and let's talk about how this can impact ministry and what it can do here. As long as you're not, I said, just looking at it through a negative lens, you can see all kinds of benefits, but it really depends on the lens that you're looking at it through, ? Sure. If what you're doing is serving people the same kind of content or connections that they're already looking for, and now you're making it easier for them to find, you're actually serving them because you're delivering what they're coming for in an easy to find manner, which gives them the answers they need to know whether or not they are ready to step inside the doors of your church. If you can provide that to someone before their face is known to you, they're known to God, their needs are known, and now they're making their needs visible so that we can meet them without having to know them in person. That's an incredible ministry opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. And, , so one of the pastor's sayings that he have is, we're friendlier than any bar in town. We have it on T shirts. Have it on That's awesome. ? Yeah. We're friendlier than any bar in town. I don't care where you go, come here. And it is, it's just a friendly, just down home, just good church and wouldn't providing someone that we don't even know with the correct content, that is a friendly thing to do. Yes. That's right. Care about our community and so being able to do some of the things, I don't need to know who you are, know what, later on, if you sign up for something and we know who you are, that's great. Maybe we can get a ministry story out of it, but it just some of the awesome things that you can do leveraging law in the way that it was intended to be. I will probably say that using law for your website might not be for everyone. What I have in mind is if you have just a huge church with a huge developer staff and you all have really just built your platform over here and you're using Rock for your backend giving or checking and things that maybe moving your website over to Rock isn't going to be for them because they've built so much tooling and they already have a big staff around that, right? But for any churches that are smaller, that might not have that, it's not as hard as you think it might be. And there are a lot of partners that are great and can help you and can walk you through it. There is a community of people that is great and walk you through it. And I think for small and medium churches, it really does fit the bill for just being almost an all in one jack of all trades. It's not going to do everything. It can't do everything. And we realize that, right? If you have a specific theme of planning center, right? We're going for scheduling and volunteer , I'm sorry, Rock's not going to meet that for you, for your worship team, for your production team, things that. But knowing that, knowing where its strengths and weaknesses are, is a big deal. So, I said, we're trying to get a lot of our people over into Rock scheduling now because we don't need planning center for that. We can get more data into Rock. Right. That's the key. What people are going at. That is the key. That's how people. If you have no people, do you really know people? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, just having all of that in a separate system that they're not talking with each other doesn't make a lot of sense. No. And it can create some real faux pas even, if a person provides data back to one system or or another about a significant life change on their end that has a lot of emotional context to it and that data never crosses into other platforms the church has, there can be some major communication or ministry moment faux pas as a result. Or even if you have a strategy in place to move that data from one platform to another platform, I think most of the time it's probably going to be a by hand thing. You might have some plug ins, but a lot of it's going to be a by hand thing. Okay, how many hours are someone spending doing What kind of time does this take? Oh, well, it doesn't take me long. Okay, well, takes you thirty minutes twice a week, every fifty two weeks a year. , could you be doing on a ministry front if you took that time? Yes, exactly. You you could be doing a lot more. So sometimes sometimes thinking of the big picture, how can we better use time? How we let the tools do what they do best? And then empower our staff, our ministers to do what they do best. Wow, I don't think we can top that. I think we're gonna just have to give that a wrap. That was an incredible that was an incredible comment there, Jonathan. And I gotta tell you, your enthusiasm and your humility are so inspiring. And we're just really thankful that you could join us today on Rockcast to share a little bit about what you're doing and who you are with the community. Some people may have seen you up on stage at RX for the first time and and just helping people realize that high impact doesn't have to start with being someone who's already been handed a stage. The stage for you came along after the fact, and it's because of hard work, enthusiasm and humility. So thank you very much, and we appreciate you joining us. And for our listeners, thanks so much for listening to Rockcast. 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